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Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

investor.lyft.com

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Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#71

Post by dawnerd »

misiti3780 wrote: post #23
quickthrowman wrote: post #7

Anyone hawking FSD is a stock promoter (liar). Uber/Tesla/Lyft. Elon Musk claims Tesla FSD will be L5 by end of 2021, but they recently filed a document with the CA DMV stating Tesla FSD is L2 automated. Which one do you think is more realistic, staying L2 by EOY 2021, or magically leaping forward to L5 FSD in 8 months? The only company working on self-driving that I believe when they issue press releases is Waymo, b…

I don't think Tesla will have L5 in 2021, but the FSD videos on youtube are pretty impressive no ?

Yes, they are but also a lot are sped up. The videos that are raw show the car still struggling to see around corners since the cameras are just not in a good enough spot. They really should have put cameras on the very front corners.

But TBH I'm not really THAT impressed it can take corners and follow more lines. It still doesn't handle very important edge cases, and the people testing and uploading videos are naturally biased to show how good it is to push their referral codes.

I'm not anti-Tesla, I love my M3, but we need to be realistic about the future of what these particular cars can do. They're never going to be L5 with the current sensor suite - and they're certainly never going to be robo taxies. Who really wants that anyways? Last thing I want is some drunk bros to destroy my car and have to deal with Tesla support.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#73

Post by elpakal »

I learned to drive in Mexico at 13, where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals (see the black arrow on the wall? that means don't stop). I remember thinking about how different things were when trying to get my driver's license in US at age 16 - almost easier - in spite of how many more rules there were. I wonder how self-driving cars perform when trained in a world of rules and order and are then thrown into complete chaos in other places.

What does training look like? Do self-driving cars only work in certain countries where they have been trained?

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#74

Post by omgwtfbyobbq »

LightG wrote: post #27
omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a link to Elon's FSD claim? He definitely uses ambiguity to his benefit (eg "soon", "by fall/winter/spring/summer" (in which year?)), but I haven't heard anything about Tesla being L5 by the end of 2021.

Even if I don't want to, I can't help but keep up with his marketing-claims through the interests I have. My take, being aware of him but not focused, is that beta-FSD has already been released! ... I mean ... what? Maybe I've got it wrong.

It's been released to a small number of people, but... beta-FSD isn't level five.

The only specific statement I've read from him is that the basic functionality for level five will be available this year.

What's interesting to me is that people seem to attribute what news articles synthesize about his statements as statements made by him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53349313

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#75

Post by simias »

ecpottinger wrote: post #33
okareaman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to live in Mountain View where Waymo tests their cars so I would observe them quite often. I sat a railroad crossing with one, thinking about what could go wrong. What if the signal didn't work, but you could hear the train coming and see it way off to the right or left if you looked. Are Waymo cars listening for trains? Or are they looking at railroad guards only? I suppose they could program the train schedu…

In in Whitby, Ontario, Canada, a dad and his son were killed driving a car across a railway crossing with no gates. The dad (driver) was on his phone at the time and it is believed the phone blocked his view of the train and he was talking to much to hear the train. The person he was talking to said they were talking like normal and suddenly the phone cut off. Computers probably can not be worse that the people alrea…

Even if you're right, that's the same argument for airplane safety. The problem is being in control versus putting your hands in the hands of an unknown third party.

The psychological, ethical and legal implications are completely different. If tomorrow I drive a car and run a kid over then I'll be in trouble and you'll probably never hear about it. If tomorrow I get in my Tesla self-driving car and it runs a kid over then you'll hear about it everywhere and Tesla's responsibility will be invoked. Because whose else?

The bar for self driving cars is not being as good (or bad) as a human driver, they need to be orders of magnitude safer in all situations. They need to have airplane industry numbers, not Average Joe drunk driving numbers.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#76

Post by adrr »

acover wrote: post #61
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically it should be able to use side-facing lidar and cameras to sense that a big truck-like thing is crossing.

Why not radar?

Because radars lacks resolution. Why my Tesla phantom brakes due to low hanging signs or slow cars in the other lane. They tune it down to ignore these anomalies and it has issues running into disabled cars and emergency vehicles.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#77

Post by rossdavidh »

elpakal wrote: post #73

I learned to drive in Mexico at 13, where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals (see the black arrow on the wall? that means don't stop). I remember thinking about how different things were when trying to get my driver's license in US at age 16 - almost easier - in spite of how many more rules there were. I wonder how self-driving cars perform when trained in a world of rules and order and are then t…

Well, they don't really "work" anywhere, if your standards are high enough. But your point is valid; making a self-driving car for many national markets has to be harder than making a regular car for those same markets.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#78

Post by estaseuropano »

quickthrowman wrote: post #7

Anyone hawking FSD is a stock promoter (liar). Uber/Tesla/Lyft. Elon Musk claims Tesla FSD will be L5 by end of 2021, but they recently filed a document with the CA DMV stating Tesla FSD is L2 automated. Which one do you think is more realistic, staying L2 by EOY 2021, or magically leaping forward to L5 FSD in 8 months? The only company working on self-driving that I believe when they issue press releases is Waymo, b…

100% agree but i wonder about the standards applied.

Where I live the streets are tight and most drivers mediocre at best, unaware that cyclists might have right of way and about 1/20 doesn't seem to know the difference between different kind of light settings in the car. At least half the cars on my street have visible scratches/dents.

For me that is the standard to be beaten, not perfection. And the car could still give signal and ask for a human to take over in some cases. Self-drivinf cars for me could also be much slower, no need to speed when you can read a book or play games

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#79

Post by andy81 »

admax88q wrote: post #63
ecpottinger wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In in Whitby, Ontario, Canada, a dad and his son were killed driving a car across a railway crossing with no gates. The dad (driver) was on his phone at the time and it is believed the phone blocked his view of the train and he was talking to much to hear the train. The person he was talking to said they were talking like normal and suddenly the phone cut off. Computers probably can not be worse that the people alrea…

If the bar is "better than someone talking on cell phone while crossing a railroad crossing without looking," I'll stick to manual driving. Self driving needs to be better than me, not better than average.

Not a problem if you only sell to the bottom 50% of drivers.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#80

Post by joe_the_user »

ecpottinger wrote: post #33
okareaman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to live in Mountain View where Waymo tests their cars so I would observe them quite often. I sat a railroad crossing with one, thinking about what could go wrong. What if the signal didn't work, but you could hear the train coming and see it way off to the right or left if you looked. Are Waymo cars listening for trains? Or are they looking at railroad guards only? I suppose they could program the train schedu…

In in Whitby, Ontario, Canada, a dad and his son were killed driving a car across a railway crossing with no gates. The dad (driver) was on his phone at the time and it is believed the phone blocked his view of the train and he was talking to much to hear the train. The person he was talking to said they were talking like normal and suddenly the phone cut off. Computers probably can not be worse that the people alrea…

A human being can drive a million miles without a serious accident. 2018 saw 1.1 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles driven[1]. Human beings are extremely good at driving safely overall.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

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