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Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

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Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#201

Post by Black101 »

boatsie wrote: post #3

Tldw: the machine throws obscure error codes (too viscous, failure to heat to proper temps, etc) and can “lock out” the operator, who has to then call an authorized service technician that bills hundreds of dollars for repair. Any attempt to self repair or hire someone else will void the warranty and is disallowed by McDonald’s corporate. The ice cream maker company, Taylor, reports 25% of their revenue is service an…

You forgot an important part, the one about Kytch... and it's about 1/4th of the video.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#202

Post by captn3m0 »

divs1210 wrote: post #200

Weird that this is never the case in India - the ice cream machines always seem to be working.

I doubt if they are using the same manufacturer or a self-sanitizing machine. With low labor costs in India, there isn't much reason to pick a self-sanitizing machine.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#203

Post by joezydeco »

throwawayboise wrote: post #48
wronglebowski wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who worked in stores for years, this isn’t entirely accurate. The machine isn’t just being an asshole to drive up service calls. The machines are filled with a dairy product which makes the “ice cream”. This is boiled nightly to keep the mixture free of bacteria. If the nightly heat cycle fails to complete for one of a dozen reasons the machine locks out. Those unaware of the process usually end up calling…

I worked at McDonald's in the 1980s. The machines weren't so fancy then. They didn't have a self-santizing heat cycle. We broke them down and cleaned and sanitized them every night after close. The next morning they were put back together and turned on. Once a week we discarded any remaining dairy product to break the cycle of any bacteria that might be present. Same with the milkshake machines. In several years of w…

Same here. But I also recall that when the health department would do spot checks of bacteria and coliform counts on the machines, they were always in or near the danger zone.

All you need is one kid that didn't wipe their ass correctly before assembling the beaters and you've got a health problem in the making. The self-sterilizing machines were designed to prevent this.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#204

Post by cptskippy »

throwawayboise wrote: post #48
wronglebowski wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who worked in stores for years, this isn’t entirely accurate. The machine isn’t just being an asshole to drive up service calls. The machines are filled with a dairy product which makes the “ice cream”. This is boiled nightly to keep the mixture free of bacteria. If the nightly heat cycle fails to complete for one of a dozen reasons the machine locks out. Those unaware of the process usually end up calling…

I worked at McDonald's in the 1980s. The machines weren't so fancy then. They didn't have a self-santizing heat cycle. We broke them down and cleaned and sanitized them every night after close. The next morning they were put back together and turned on. Once a week we discarded any remaining dairy product to break the cycle of any bacteria that might be present. Same with the milkshake machines. In several years of w…

I worked at McDonald's for 6 months in the late 90s and it was the same process. I actually quit because someone started the machine breakdown early, incorrectly, and without telling anyone because they wanted to leave at close.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#205

Post by Wowfunhappy »

monkey_monkey wrote: post #145
dncornholio wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's mostly operator errors, than why not make the information clear to the operators on what the error actually is? Your post only confirms how bad Taylor machines at McDonalds are. It looks they are deliberately making the machines obscure to the operators

Yes, this seems to be exactly what they're doing – I posted a link on another thread to a Wired article that sheds some light on why these machines break down, and how McDonalds have waged legal war on a startup trying to bring some transparency to the internal operations of the Taylor machine. Here it is again, to save searching through the comments: https://www.wired.com/story/they-hacked-mcdonalds-ice-cream-... [e…

As a note, a lot of that wired piece is also in the video, including the startup. :)

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#206

Post by slantyyz »

raverbashing wrote: post #178
matthewdgreen wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very common for engineers to hypothesize (often with limited evidence) that the problem is “the users” rather than the technology and its support infrastructure. I think this can be true, but two points: 1. The high-attrition low-skill workforce at fast food restaurants is a fact of the industry. (I am not endorsing it either.) So if a solution is failing widely when faced with the reality of its users, then th…

I agree with you, and I was not blaming the users/the workforce. As you said it is a fact of the industry. McD is known for making their processes simple and repeatable and it seems the machine is failing that paradigm. (And oh well, my comment was speculative and made before I saw the video, the users really can't do much when the company hides information from them - though we don't know exactly how the procedures…

> McD is known for making their processes simple and repeatable and it seems the machine is failing that paradigm.

Which, coincidentally, is based on Frederick Taylor's theory of Scientific Management. Pretty sure Frederick Taylor and the Taylor making the ice cream machines aren't connected in any way though.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#208

Post by slantyyz »

mjrpes wrote: post #58
wronglebowski wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who worked in stores for years, this isn’t entirely accurate. The machine isn’t just being an asshole to drive up service calls. The machines are filled with a dairy product which makes the “ice cream”. This is boiled nightly to keep the mixture free of bacteria. If the nightly heat cycle fails to complete for one of a dozen reasons the machine locks out. Those unaware of the process usually end up calling…

The video says the Taylor machines at other fast food places (Burger King, Wendy's) rarely break down, or at least much less than McDonald's. So you're saying this is untrue? If not, why the discrepancy?

The Wired article explains this more clearly than the video. These machines do more than the ones at the other places.

"But what makes the machine special is that it has two hoppers and two barrels, each working independently with precise settings, to produce both milkshakes and soft serve simultaneously."[1]

1: https://www.wired.com/story/they-hacked-mcdonalds-ice-cream-...

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#209

Post by slantyyz »

asdff wrote: post #71
wronglebowski wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't "broken". It's operations failures. The basic fact of 1. Keeping the machine full of the right amount of product to complete it's nightly heat cycle 2. Have someone trained to fully clean the machine every 14 days Is a burden too great for many franchisees to bear. The turnover is too high and investment in people too low to keep them operational. Nothing about them is "broken"

Why are they using such a complicated ice cream machine? I worked in food service in the 2010s and ours was pretty simple. One switch at the back for on and off and that was it. It took one person like 10 minutes to break it down and have it cleaned at the end of the night. The hardest part was wiping the exterior down. You basically just put a bucket underneath, ran the ice cream out, then ran hot water through it (…

The video is not a complete story.

I suggest you read the Wired article that came out a few days ago, as it addresses a lot of the questions being asked here.

https://www.wired.com/story/they-hacked-mcdonalds-ice-cream-...

It should be worth noting that the story in this video and the Wired article appears to have been initiated by the creators of the Kytch.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#210

Post by bombcar »

bkirkby wrote: post #191

As I read the comments (not watched the video yet) where people are discussing the misaligned incentives of both the ice cream machine vendor (Taylor makes money on maintenance) and the McD franchisee (ice cream is a loss leader), I was reminded that a convenience store chain here in Utah has a self-serve shake machine (I forget the brand name) that has always been broken when I thought I'd try it out. I asked my wif…

Those complex machines are often bought by corporate and require lots of hand-holding (I've seen the employees at Kwik Trip cleaning theirs multiple times which must mean it takes a decent amount of time to do, or I'd rarely see it).

If the sales are mediocre it becomes a vending machine that requires work and the local management won't bother as it's not critical for the business - just like the ice cream machine isn't critical for McDonalds but I guarantee if they had the same problem with the soda machine they'd fix it somehow.

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