‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

Post by handol » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 12:53 AM UTC

irrational wrote: post #126

makomk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're crediting you for that energy at anything close to the retail electricity rate you're effectively getting a really generous subsidy. Because solar is so cheap but only produces electricity sometimes and at pretty much the same time everywhere in the region, the actual cost of electricity when your solar panels are producing heavily and feeding back into the grid is much, much lower than when they're not pr…

Our system generates about 10 MWh per year (10 million watts of electricity). Our house isn't that big (1800 sq feet) and we have all LED lights and the highest energy saving appliances. We don't use anywhere near that many watts in a year. Our surplus credits easily cover our energy costs during Winter.

Post by jollybean » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #71

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Relevant quote: "Every time you double producing capacity, you reduce the cost of PV solar by 28%." Current worldwide PV manufacturing capacity is roughly 165 GW [1] [2], with a utility scale price close to $0.01/kWh [3]. Manufacturing capacity is doubling every ~4 years. Global PV capacity in service is ~600 GW. IEA Average global annual capacity additions in main and accelerated cases, 2023-2025: https://www.iea.or…

I think researchers underestimated how much solar simply “makes sense” to the average person. Once the price is reasonable enough, people are very easily able to latch onto the idea of using what they already know and feel - the sun’s heat. Whenever I mention the solar panels in my parents house, the first question is always about the price. When I tell them they will break even in a few years, their next question is…

Post by laurencerowe » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

mulmboy wrote: post #123

Retric wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily offset that changing the angle the panels are installed at. People think in terms of maximum total output but tracking solar show significant power is available late in the day. As solar keeps getting cheaper the question shifts further from how do I get maximum power to how do I maximize my investment. Which is a slightly different and far more complex optimization problem.

Yeah you're right. But, tracking solar (and solar with fixed positioning that maximises energy output later in the day) largely applies for more sophisticated sites such as commercial and industrial. I've seen such setups that forego around 20% of solar energy production to maximise production during more expensive time of use windows (including offsetting time of use demand charges). Residential installations are us…

Post by pfdietz » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #18

edhelas wrote: post #16

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Sure :) 500B€ (yes, half a trillion !) invested in wind turbines in Germany over 20 years. Check the result https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/DE , Germany is ~300g of CO²/kwh, France is 50g. Why ? Because when there is no wind, no sun, you need power. And then you're burning gaz or coal. So you "erase" all those 0CO² days. Also solar panel efficiency fades over time, you loose 50% of efficiency after a few decades.…

I thought it was because Germany shut down its nuclear power plants and ramped its coal generation up? [1] Germany poorly managing its power grid doesn’t imply that renewables aren’t economically rational; it implies Germany makes irrational national policy. France is primarily nuclear powered, as you point out with their low CO2 emission footprint (compare the generation mixes of both countries in ElectricityMap, I’…

Post by pfdietz » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

edhelas wrote: post #25

hh3k0 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please do the math, check how much you'll need to cover the consumption of a small city for a night. It sure would be nice if we had a transnational energy infrastructure, as the sun is always shining somewhere. Think DESERTEC and Gobitec but for the whole planet.

Oh yes, thousands of km of high power copper cables. Crossing west-to-east Europe with electricity is already loosing 30% of it. Let's transport electricity from Australia to India ! And for wind, it's the same issue, when there is wind in Finland, there is wind in Spain. So you can't "balance thing" between countries.