231–240 of 271 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Police kill about 1000-1200 people per year in the U.S., depending on who's counting. See for example the Washington Post data. So it's not just tens over a decade.
IIRC, isn't the CDC forbidden by law from investigating all types of deaths by firearms?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Police kill about 1000-1200 people per year in the U.S., depending on who's counting. See for example the Washington Post data. So it's not just tens over a decade.
First, that means ~99.9% of police officers in the US don't shoot someone, so that isn't rare, as the post I responded to suggested. Second, I didn't say the police only kill tens of people over a decade, I said tens of incidents have made the national news. Only the noteworthy cases make the national news, which is kind of the point here. People's opinions are shaped by the most extreme incidents. I think we should…
Perhaps because you don't see yourself as being affected by said perceived crisis. For affected groups, it is very much the crisis it has been made out to be. Besides, shooting statistics are often symptoms of deeper issues that need addressing.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach." Even if true, cops aren't supposed to be judge, jury, and executioner. Talk about threatening "law and order". "Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide"" Even if you believe this, let's just kill all children with violent nicknames, eh? I don't know why I bothered, when you opened your comment by boasting about your alleged i…
Both of those examples are easily verifiable with a google search. Murals of Adam Toledo have "Lil Homicide" as part of the mural. "Well you know so what if George FLoyd threatened to shoot a pregnant woman in the stomach! Hes a gentle giant! A working class honest man!" -Brainwashed Americans Go look at the murder rate of ethnic groups, against their own groups and then against other groups. If minorities are killin…
Snopes says it's not true; who (outside of right-wing faxlore) says it is?
What's it called when you believe something that matches your bias, even when it isn't true?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…
> George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach. A quick DDG says this is an urban legend, or do you, Mr. "Highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc" know better? And did those things you read justify the death he suffered? The cops didn't even know his past, and even if they did, so fucking what, their job isn't to judge someone to be…
I learned more about the situation than I had 'heard' before - so thanks for that. I do not think the 'undisputed' facts make the thing total 'urban legend' however.
It seems there is some questioning as to whether or not the girl was pregnant or not - even the places that seem to be trying to downplay the 'social media legend' - aka politifact giving a "false" because a wrong picture was being used on an instagram (meme?) - It seems that there is no debate that he (with others) forced into a home, and using a gun, threatened a couple of people and a toddler - at one point shoving a gun into the stomach of a woman - demanding to know where the money and drugs are.
I do not write this to justify anything - I am a seeker of truths, which more and more these days seem to elude 'both sides' of many discussions.
For what it's worth I wish things ended differently with the Floyd situation, and I think a majority of people on either side/any side also feel the same.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both of those examples are easily verifiable with a google search. Murals of Adam Toledo have "Lil Homicide" as part of the mural. "Well you know so what if George FLoyd threatened to shoot a pregnant woman in the stomach! Hes a gentle giant! A working class honest man!" -Brainwashed Americans Go look at the murder rate of ethnic groups, against their own groups and then against other groups. If minorities are killin…
>George FLoyd threatened to shoot a pregnant woman in the stomach Snopes says it's not true; who (outside of right-wing faxlore) says it is? What's it called when you believe something that matches your bias, even when it isn't true?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with all this data is that it doesn't inform us of who is actually committing crimes . If we are overly fixated on racism by the police and confuse correlation with causation, we might entirely miss other structural/systemic factors that might be leading (or forcing) black people to criminal behavior more often than white people. I am aware of some research that tries to estimate propensity to actually co…
> The problem with all this data is that it doesn't inform us of who is actually committing crimes. Arrest records do not provide this data either. If an area or activity is policed at a lower rate, it will look like fewer crimes are committed there. Example: there have been public "420" festivals all over the country dating back to well before the recent legalizations. These were not accompanied by mass arrests, des…
I recently had some deeper insights around this. I have witnessed reasoning for these things being different at different times over the years, but the main factor has been calls/reports/complaints from the communities.
Busting people at an airbnb in a quite retirement neighborhood as opposed to a college campus, drug complaints blocks from an elem school in a low income area as opposed to breckenridge, co - (which told it's police to leave weed alone many moons ago) - these things are not driven by a nationwide predisposition from those who swear allegiance to the blue cult of the country.. these things are actually driven by the individual community in most cases.
I'll admit sometimes that 'community' could be real-estate developers looking to gentrify or whatever- sometimes it could be 'x color people who fear Y people at X place' - and the bicycle thing in the news recently was probably someone complaining and pointing out safety concerns - which had bad optics when viewed through the 'but you don't do that to X percentage of other bikers' - sure..
I also understand there are places where people don't call cops do to fears or reprisal - and I don't think this is a color of skin thing so much.
I'd love to deep dive in this further, but my point is that it's not so much cops as a whole are some type of way - it's often more a reflection of individual neighborhoods and communities and their tolerance or lack of tolerance for various things - and often that is what is reflected in reports more than number of crimes committed in X or Y place.
Thankfully these things can change - sadly I already see some of pendulum swinging the other way however. In places where people are finding additional freedoms through "progressive DA's, and progressive law changes" some are not considering how their use of such affects other near them. So I expect an ebb and flow of these things based on how annoyed people are by effects - no matter the color of those involved.
Now you can point out disproportionate court cases, pleads, incarcerations and all those kinds of stats and get similar points made - and certainly there may be places that look at racial things - but I believe there it is more of an issue of socio-econimc access to legal assistance more than anything - and that is complex too.
Why is this such a rarity these days? My grandfather was an AP (MP) for decades and never shot at anyone, despite handling uncountable hairy/critical situations with individuals trained in killing. Shoot first and ask questions never? Deescalation and self-control should be job #1 along with verbal/social skills to solve problems before jumping to the nuclear option out of fear.
Different training. Different level of accountability/liability/etc. Cops are not trained to deescalate, their are taught to have commanding control and respond aggressively. And they are trained to shoot to kill. They are also taught to fear a lot, the emphasis is on danger they are in. And plus, this behavior is rewarded with promotions. And courts progressively removed legal obstacles to the above.
There’s really not another option. Shoot to wound isn’t an option. You don’t shoot to kill, you shoot to neutralize the threat.
https://www.ajc.com/news/national/here-why-police-don-shoot-...
https://www.forcescience.org/2006/03/why-shooting-to-wound-d...
Good for Newark! But, from what I understand, they gave the cops better training and got better result. That is how education works.
They’re now proof points that governments can reduce police fatalities by training their police to use more than guns. This hopefully makes it a little easier to sue a city into the ground for failure to adequately train its police force.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police? There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased. Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?
I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…
It's quite clear a lot of American policing has problems, correct training, being over militarised, too powerful unions, being used for wrong situations, cutting budgets from things that actually reduce crime and increasing police budgets, inappropriate use of civil forfeiture to name just a few.
> law and order of a civilized nation. Law and order, well theres underlying fault with American policing right there, the law and order approach. Plenty of countries are civilized without the law and order approach eg Peelian.
Why keep posting lots of comments with the same arguments about why its not racism, and instead ask/comment on the article like why the approach used is working.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Police kill about 1000-1200 people per year in the U.S., depending on who's counting. See for example the Washington Post data. So it's not just tens over a decade.
First, that means ~99.9% of police officers in the US don't shoot someone, so that isn't rare, as the post I responded to suggested. Second, I didn't say the police only kill tens of people over a decade, I said tens of incidents have made the national news. Only the noteworthy cases make the national news, which is kind of the point here. People's opinions are shaped by the most extreme incidents. I think we should…
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/story/202...