Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess it's US only? Can't access from EU.
On the off chance PBS allows access outside the US: https://player.pbs.org/widget/partnerplayer/2365792793/
Surprisingly it worked here in Sweden, thank you!
Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
51–60 of 271 posts
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why reply like with insults like this ("pathetic", etc), and most of all, why did people flag the comment? Assuming your own stats are correct, you refuted his comment really well, and using abusive language only diminishes your response. If HN is going to actually engage in these political debates (and I question whether it's wise to do so for the community), then people are going to have to stop flagging comments t…
I agree that the tone of replies matter, but flagging comments spreading misinformation seems like a positive thing.
[deleted]
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. And if it's the case that people in the city's black community are committing arrestable offenses (however stupid some definitions of what is an offense for which you can be arrested and charged with for are), then what should the department do? Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing just becau…
What a disgusting and false comment https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/29/fac... - Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide are similar, at around 80% and 90% - Rates of Black-on-white and white-on-Black homicide also within 8 points - Police kill Black people at disproportionate rates
I encourage everyone to actually read the linked article and draw your own conclusions.
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#54[deleted]
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#55Good for Newark! But, from what I understand, they gave the cops better training and got better result. That is how education works.
I disagree. The largest factors are likely to be culture (coming from leadership) and higher scrutiny (mentioned in the article as a requirement to report and investigate any use of force).
Couldn’t possibly be a confluence of all the above? Not even in the tiniest degree?
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#56I think this only addresses half of what's wrong with Newark PD. Newark still spends about a third of it's city budget on police, at the expense of essential services like infrastructure and education. Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. The disparity of arrest rates is even greater when it comes to drug possession.
> Newark still spends about a third of it's city budget on police, at the expense of essential services like infrastructure and education.
How does that compare with other metros? My impression is that police and schools are some of the most expensive services cities provide, and both consume a significant chunk of most cities' budgets.
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. And if it's the case that people in the city's black community are committing arrestable offenses (however stupid some definitions of what is an offense for which you can be arrested and charged with for are), then what should the department do? Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing just becau…
What a disgusting and false comment https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/29/fac... - Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide are similar, at around 80% and 90% - Rates of Black-on-white and white-on-Black homicide also within 8 points - Police kill Black people at disproportionate rates
That article only covers homicide, which is a relatively rare crime. There are many other types of crimes that can warrant a police response and arrest such as property crime, assault, robbery, etc.
In addition, the link provided only covers relative homicide rates, ie what percentage of homicides that occur are committed by member of a given race. It does not address what percentage of individuals in a given demographic that have committed homicide.
These sources from the fbi provide a bit better context:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf
Of course, looking at crime statistics only through the lens of race and ethnicity also misses a lot of context. Poverty rates have a huge impact on crime rates and due to racism, both present and past, poverty rates in the American black demographic are much higher than poverty rates in the American white demographic.
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137
https://www.statista.com/statistics/422520/us-rate-of-violen...
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#58Good for Newark! But, from what I understand, they gave the cops better training and got better result. That is how education works.
They’re now proof points that governments can reduce police fatalities by training their police to use more than guns. This hopefully makes it a little easier to sue a city into the ground for failure to adequately train its police force.
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
What a disgusting and false comment https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/29/fac... - Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide are similar, at around 80% and 90% - Rates of Black-on-white and white-on-Black homicide also within 8 points - Police kill Black people at disproportionate rates
I encourage everyone to actually read the linked article and draw your own conclusions.
nah. This rhetorical technique of posting raw data and "begging the question" is a pretty frequent white supremacist talking point. Important to label its argument as disingenuous and move on.
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#60I think this only addresses half of what's wrong with Newark PD. Newark still spends about a third of it's city budget on police, at the expense of essential services like infrastructure and education. Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. The disparity of arrest rates is even greater when it comes to drug possession.
I was surprised to learn that overall, the U.S. spends about 0.8% of GDP on policing, which places it in about the middle of OECD countries. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-differen... Budget seems like the least of our problems in fixing U.S. policing, though I recognize in some cities it may be more of a problem than others. The biggest problem seems to be the huge amount of resistance from poli…
That surprises me as well! Particularly if it includes departments like ICE and FBI within that definition of policing.
I tried to search for the original source to see if I could find how they are calculating theses costs but didn’t have any luck.
I mention this because NYPD budget is often referenced as $6 billion, but that’s only operating costs, and the actual amount is closer to $11 billion (including fringe benefits like overtime and funding the NYPD pension).
With a 2020 GPD of $20,936 billion Then 0.8% of that is $167 billion
If we assume that policing costs are more closely tied to population rather than GDP we’d expect that NYPD costs to be about 2.5% of national amount. That’s approximately $4.2 billion.
But NYPD costs are $11 billion, which is 6.5% of estimated national policing costs (for 2.5% of the population).
Admittedly, I can imagine that there are reasons why a big city area might have higher than average costs, but 6.5% makes me feel that the 0.8% of GDP might be either underestimating how much US spends as part of GDP, or calculating national costs using different methods for different countries.