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Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

nj.com

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Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#31

Post by monoideism »

evgen wrote: post #10
cdot2 wrote: post #3

While the crime rate has been going down since 2013, Newark still has a murder rate of 57 per 100,000 while the US average is 5 per 100,000. Perhaps their policing model should not be copied. http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Newark-New-Jersey.html#

This is the most pathetic attempt to lie with statistics I have seen all week, congrats! JFC, can you not even be bothered to read the stat you tried to pick to prove your point? The rate according to data you provided was 20.3/100k. The murder rate is proportional to population density across the country as a general rule, so the 'US average' is a bullshit stat to try to use for comparison with a large city. If you…

Why reply like with insults like this ("pathetic", etc), and most of all, why did people flag the comment? Assuming your own stats are correct, you refuted his comment really well, and using abusive language only diminishes your response.

If HN is going to actually engage in these political debates (and I question whether it's wise to do so for the community), then people are going to have to stop flagging comments that go against whatever they believe, and just refute them like you just did (using your facts, not your insults).

If you believe (like I do, increasingly) that HN should avoid the political topics, then flag the whole article, not individual comments.

PS: the reason why people use throwaways for unpopular opinions is because they are well aware that there's a large group of people out there who will go after their jobs.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#32

Post by nerdponx »

elil17 wrote: post #16
bananabiscuit wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the demographics, white people make up only about one third of the population in Newark.

Arresting at a hire rate means in comparison to the demographics of the city. In 2020, 50% of Newark residents were Black but 80% of arrests were of Black people. 80% of victims of police use of force were Black. A third of the city is white but only 4% of police use of force victims are white. [1] [1]: https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/07/newark-must-do-more-to-st...

The problem with all this data is that it doesn't inform us of who is actually committing crimes.

If we are overly fixated on racism by the police and confuse correlation with causation, we might entirely miss other structural/systemic factors that might be leading (or forcing) black people to criminal behavior more often than white people.

I am aware of some research that tries to estimate propensity to actually commit crimes using victim surveys instead of police data, but I see so many conflicting results from different academic fields that I don't feel like I can form an opinion.

All I know is that measuring disparities in arrests is not enough and cannot possibly be enough to distinguish police racism specifically from other racial disparities.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#33

Post by imagineerschool »

gadrev wrote: post #23
throwaway1090 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's on youtube [1]. They released another documentary with the same name and the same Newark subject with 2020 updates [2]. They both have the same duration but are different. [1] Policing the Police (2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_8vTl6D940 [2] Policing the Police (2020) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taNwWilMVLg Both come with optional English subtitles.

I guess it's US only? Can't access from EU.

Confirmed, can't access it from Canada, but with a VPN to the US, it's available.

Who makes these choices?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#34

Post by marcosdumay »

tootie wrote: post #4
cdot2 wrote: post #3

While the crime rate has been going down since 2013, Newark still has a murder rate of 57 per 100,000 while the US average is 5 per 100,000. Perhaps their policing model should not be copied. http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Newark-New-Jersey.html#

Do police actually affect the murder rate?

I don't know. But it really should. If it turns out that it doesn't, there's something very wrong with the entire situation.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#35

Post by elil17 »

helloworld11 wrote: post #26
elil17 wrote: post #13

I think this only addresses half of what's wrong with Newark PD. Newark still spends about a third of it's city budget on police, at the expense of essential services like infrastructure and education. Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. The disparity of arrest rates is even greater when it comes to drug possession.

>Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. And if it's the case that people in the city's black community are committing arrestable offenses (however stupid some definitions of what is an offense for which you can be arrested and charged with for are), then what should the department do? Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing just becau…

> Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing

Yes. No one’s ordered police to focus on anyone one kind of crime. Police in America have total discretion to choose which laws they enforce and which they don’t.

In Arizona you can get six months in jail for spitting in a public park, but you don’t see Arizona cops trying to arrest everyone for that. It’s a federal crime to let your dog bark in a National Park but the park police don’t really care. Similarly, there’s nothing forcing cops to focus on marijuana possession.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#36

Post by imwillofficial »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #14
elil17 wrote: post #13

I think this only addresses half of what's wrong with Newark PD. Newark still spends about a third of it's city budget on police, at the expense of essential services like infrastructure and education. Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. The disparity of arrest rates is even greater when it comes to drug possession.

Check the demographics, white people make up only about one third of the population in Newark.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good narrative.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#37

Post by jmartrican »

imagineerschool wrote: post #33
gadrev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's US only? Can't access from EU.

Confirmed, can't access it from Canada, but with a VPN to the US, it's available. Who makes these choices?

I didn't even know YouTube did this.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#38

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

elil17 wrote: post #35
helloworld11 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. And if it's the case that people in the city's black community are committing arrestable offenses (however stupid some definitions of what is an offense for which you can be arrested and charged with for are), then what should the department do? Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing just becau…

> Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing Yes. No one’s ordered police to focus on anyone one kind of crime. Police in America have total discretion to choose which laws they enforce and which they don’t. In Arizona you can get six months in jail for spitting in a public park, but you don’t see Arizona cops trying to arrest everyone for that. It’s a federal crime to let your do…

Is there a reason to believe these drug possession arrests were primarily for marijuana? New Jersey passed a law in mid 2020 to decriminalize it starting January, so I’d be surprised if it were a big police focus in the interval.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#39

Post by nerdponx »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #22
param wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And do we know why this disparity exists?

I’d assume it’s some combination of the cops being racist, or actual differences in crime rates among demographics. I see no reason to conclude it has to be one or the other, not sure if there’s any actual way to determine how much each cause contributes though.

This distinction is critically important and is almost never even mentioned in popular media discussions of police racism.

Yes, policing and criminal justice in America fucking sucks (especially if you have dark skin) and needs major reform no matter what. But I don't want to start seeing ghosts where none exist, and chasing after them instead of focusing on other problems.

Edit: I explained this better in a different comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26925138

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#40

Post by jchook »

Significant to note that Newark Police officers did not wear body cameras until early 2020. It seems like part of the same “decree” but I didn’t see the article mention it.

I recall a similar stat from CA where body cameras reduced complaints by 80%.

Also it looks like Merrick Garland reversed Jeff Sessions’ limitations on consent decree.

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