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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#391

Post by argonaut »

rconti wrote: post #243

I've been following the id.4 release with moderate interest. I previously had a 2016 Golf R 6 speed manual, and now have a 2018 Tesla Model 3. IMO, the VW is just too expensive. Now, if you're getting the tax credit on the VW, and of course can't get it on a Tesla anymore, that makes the difference. But without the credit, the id4 is virtually the price of an AWD Model Y. For a vehicle that doesn't have AWD, has a to…

The standard range Model Y, which you can only order in-store/phone (so I'm not even sure if it's still available), costs something like $42k and it's RWD, not AWD, and has about the same range as the ID4.

You also can't just say "without the credit." Once the ID4 loses the tax credit, VW will cut the price of the ID4. Tesla cut the price of the Model 3 when it started losing the credit.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#392

Post by Brakenshire »

kleiba wrote: post #385
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

range, availability, or charging which are solved enough But are they really? Especially for charging, I'm still not convinced. The articles makes a case that you can go and grab a coffee while your ID.4 charges in 30 minutes at a high-speed charging stations. Sorry, but "30 minutes" and "high-speed" in one sentence seems somewhat misplaced. Who can afford to just waste 30 minutes for charging on a regular basis? I c…

It’s solved for people with driveways.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#393

Post by jfim »

kleiba wrote: post #385
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

range, availability, or charging which are solved enough But are they really? Especially for charging, I'm still not convinced. The articles makes a case that you can go and grab a coffee while your ID.4 charges in 30 minutes at a high-speed charging stations. Sorry, but "30 minutes" and "high-speed" in one sentence seems somewhat misplaced. Who can afford to just waste 30 minutes for charging on a regular basis? I c…

> Who can afford to just waste 30 minutes for charging on a regular basis?

The idea is that charging is done at home overnight, so that the high speed charging stations are only used whenever one is doing longer drives on a single day.

As you point out though, not everyone has access to charging at home. Some employers do have charging stations, which can help since many cars do stay several hours at the office every day.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#394

Post by jhgb »

scythe wrote: post #380
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

>rare earth metals that seemingly remain popular within the batteries To clarify: rare-earths are required for the magnets in EV motors. Cobalt is rare, but not a rare-earth, and is used in the batteries. The supply of lithium and nickel may affect prices at high production volumes (widespread adoption) but is not currently a significant factor. Replacements for cobalt in batteries are the object of recent research;…

> To clarify: rare-earths are required for the magnets in EV motors.

Not necessarily; they're just convenient, but not strictly required. Model S vehicles use induction motors and they seem to work just fine.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#395

Post by ihaveajob »

cjohansson wrote: post #260
fassssst wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I had a ID.4 pre-ordered but canceled it after I realized how absurd the price is. I bought a utility e-bike instead and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I barely use my car anymore and biking is way more fun and greener than any car.

Regular bikes have the benefit that they improve your health, it's not exhaustive once you get a better stamina. E-bikes are a bad product I think in todays society

I'm an almost-exclusive cyclist, and don't own an e-bike, but e-bikes are an absolutely great product. They lower the entry barrier to people who are not that fit, need to carry kids/stuff, or just don't feel like turning every trip into a workout. Plus the more cyclists on the road, the safer it is for everyone else.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#396

Post by Brakenshire »

rconti wrote: post #243

I've been following the id.4 release with moderate interest. I previously had a 2016 Golf R 6 speed manual, and now have a 2018 Tesla Model 3. IMO, the VW is just too expensive. Now, if you're getting the tax credit on the VW, and of course can't get it on a Tesla anymore, that makes the difference. But without the credit, the id4 is virtually the price of an AWD Model Y. For a vehicle that doesn't have AWD, has a to…

It’s $17k cheaper than the Model Y you’re talking about (longer range, AWD) after the tax credit.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#397

Post by hourislate »

jacquesm wrote: post #284
hourislate wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in DFW also and you are correct. I'd take a guess that 80% of F150 owners live in a quiet suburban neighborhood and have never used the truck bed. What really is insane is the folks like a neighbor down the street who has an F250 Diesel Monster truck that has never seen any off road action except the time he drove on his grass backing out of the driveway. Same with all the Jeeps with oversized tires and 12k in…

> like all the old farts buying Harley's and pretending they are some kind of bikers...shame they destroyed the brand Actually, they kept the brand alive by buying the product. Without those people they'd have died long ago.

>Actually, they kept the brand alive by buying the product. >Without those people they'd have died long ago.

I disagree, the Company was founded in 1903 and was did well into the 90's and then the 50 plus crowd decided to be some kind of poser biker gang type and destroyed the brand. Not very different than what happened to the Corvette and all the 6o plus folks buying them the last 20 years.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#398

Post by sngz »

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

their biggest hurdle apparently is inability to design EV's that don't look ridiculous and not a crossover/SUV. Many people I know would be getting one by now if they can just come out with something that looks like a normal car like the model 3 performance but doesn't have Tesla's poor quality control and customer service.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#399

Post by martinald »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #280
nawitus wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poorer countries in Europe tax fuel more. If you raise fuel tax, people will find ways to buy less fuel. Generally this means more efficient (often smaller) cars, and perhaps prioritizing living more near to jobs etc. The main problem is that fuel tax should be increased slowly so people can change their consumption accordingly.

The difference is, even the poorer countries in Europe have a better bus and train system than the majority of America. Now, granted, America is much larger so I hate these comparisons. Many European countries are the size of an American state, but compare any US state and the bus and train system will almost certainly pale in comparison. I'm all for a fuel tax, but I'm also a huge proponent for a decent alternative…

This isn't really true. My experience in Europe is that cities over 500k population generally have decent public transit systems that you can use all the time. Below 100k population they are likely terrible, infrequent and not enough routes (there are exceptions, but it is rare). In between 100k and 500k it's a coin flip whether they are good or bad.

Regardless it is definitely not the case that people drive less in Europe because they are taking public transit way more - EU and US basically have the same modal share - maybe !0% more people taking transit that driving, but not really a huge difference.

What is very different is the length and distance of commutes in the US. The average american drives 3-4x more distance than the average european, so fuel taxes can be 3-4x higher in Europe than US and the consumer pays the same. This is really a result of the inefficient urban design many places in the US have, with huge sprawl leading to enormous commutes. This is a much harder thing to fix (and it also precludes better transit systems due the very low population density).

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#400

Post by argonaut »

dahfizz wrote: post #140
gaoshan wrote: post #132

This looks like the first vehicle of this sort to even approach affordable (with the $7,500 tax credit it will cost less than a high end Honda CR-V). The fact that it is also well regarded in the reviews I have seen make this the first electric vehicle I could consider buying myself. Excited that something as relatively attainable as this is reaching the market.

A base tesla model3 is cheaper than a base ID.4. It does look like the ID.4 will be cheaper after the tax credits, but not dramatically so.

The base ID4 is ~$2.5k cheaper after federal credit and actually has longer range than a Model 3 Standard Range (the off menu Model 3), and it's closer in size to a Model Y.
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