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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#261

Post by rconti »

admax88q wrote: post #93
dreamcompiler wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW is pretty far behind Tesla in battery technology.[0] Still, this seems like a good car for a large number of drivers. The VW charging network is building out rapidly (I've noticed that VW's chargers are largely in the same locations as Tesla's superchargers. Wonder why?) The Tesla Model Y Long Range is rated at 326 miles and in my experience that's accurate and completely practical. As to your criterion of "500ish…

> If, OTOH you are able to switch to a mindset where you keep your energy status in the back of your mind (and an EV car helps you with this a great deal) then you might be ready. Honestly that's a huge turn off for me. I have enough things on the back of my mind, tracking my "energy status" would have a significant opportunity cost by displacing more productive things.

I also track my fuel range in the back of my head when driving my ICE vehicles.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#262

Post by eropple »

ajross wrote: post #111
eropple wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

n=1 of course, but to me Teslas aren't compelling until they 1) are a company I want to support, 2) building a vehicle I want, at 3) a price I want to pay. They fail #1 in a bunch of entertaining ways, they don't make a vehicle that satisfies #2 either in features/size or in the absence of misfeatures like the center console or the quasi-automated car crasher, and they'd have to take a significant haircut to satisfy…

> 1) are a company I want to support Really? I mean... as opposed to which automaker? Paraphrasing Matthew Yglesias[1]: Elon Musk is a raging narcissist asshole. But he built a three-quarter-trillion dollar company that makes electric cars and solar panels . That's... objectively pretty good for all of us, right? [1] I think. Actually I can't completely remember where I read this but it definitely sounds like him.

Maybe I was unclear. It's not (just) that Elon Musk is a dirtbag who sics his literally millions of stans on random people, though that's part of it; I don't think the way that he, personally, identifies and treats people is a reasonable way for a person with any measure of power to act.

It's also that I don't want to support an automaker that makes cars as poorly as Tesla does. Even to this day Tesla rolls cars out to customers with stuff as simple as body panels totally hosed. And Tesla then gives buyers the run-around when they seek redress. That's when they aren't double-charging folks and making getting that redressed entirely too difficult, too.

I didn't say they shouldn't exist. I said that I don't want to give them money. Tesla's shitty at making cars and shitty at customer service and I don't have a reason to buy from them either from the perspective of a purchaser or as somebody who tries to be at least reasonably ethical with the allocation of my money. As mentioned, my next car will likely be a Kona EV, where the body panels don't fall off and I have some trust in the warranty to actually be honored if I need something done.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#263

Post by closeparen »

MrRadar wrote: post #18
axaxs wrote: post #5

I'm kicking around the idea of an electric car, but the ranges of these things just utterly disappoint me. With some companies offering, or planning to offer 500ish mile ranges, it would feel immediately outdated to me to throw 40k on something with a ~200 mile range. Is battery tech that different between companies, is it cost prohibitive?

How often do you drive that far? The farthest I drive in one go is 350 miles and I only make that trip once every other year because it's exhausting. (If I could fly there I probably would.) A vehicle with a 100 mile range would cover pretty much all the other driving I do regularly.

If I drive somewhere 2 hours away for the weekend, drive around town while I'm there, and then drive home, that's easily 350 miles between home-charging opportunities.

With less range than that, EV charging becomes a constraint on which lodging I can choose or else how I'm going to spend ~hours of my vacation.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#264

Post by tommoor »

agloeregrets wrote: post #95
foepys wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, there are entire continents where electric vehicles are simply not feasible. You cannot drive an EV 100km through mud and forests to get to a town just to charge it. Those EVs are not only very heavy and will sink in mud, they turn into bricks when empty. Have fun getting electricity into the jungle. A gas canister can be brought by anybody and filling the car up is quick. So most likely you will be ha…

Yup! Plus in the US the majority of all cars are not parked in a garage or driveway. How do those charge?

> in the US the majority of all cars are not parked in a garage or driveway.

Source? That seems highly unlikely

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#265

Post by noahmbarr »

intrasight wrote: post #252

My opinion is that the industry has gone in the wrong direction with batteries. Cars should use swappable rechargeable batteries swapped by robots at the charging station. Faster pit stops and simpler batteries (no need for water-cooled, etc) and cheaper cars. And elimination of concern of battery warranty.

Guessing you're a non-EV owner.

I've owned a Tesla for the last 6 months. Here's my experience:

* It charges at home, begining the charge at 12:30AM just after the rates drop. It charges to ~240 miles of range.

* For the 4 days I've wanted to go futher, charged upto 100% and that solved my problem 2 of the 4.

* Other 2 days, I stopped at a charger along my way on a road trip. there was a place to grab food and take a walk. 25 minutes later on was back on the road. No biggie. -- I don't need or want a swapable battery. Rather have a better engineered car that doesn't have this engineering requirement.

I'd assume 99% of Tesla owners would agree.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#266

Post by semi-extrinsic »

Hamuko wrote: post #216
RamRodification wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are being a bit overly negative but you do have a point. Where I live (northern Europe) I could never get by with any kind of "open" vehicle (i need a roof and heating) and snow tyres.

You can get snow tyres fitted on a bicycle (I had some as a youth) but bicycles are still quite horrible in the winter. I remember biking home from school during the winter when it was snowing heavily. The sidewalks were completely snowed in with heavy snow so the bike just really went where it wanted to go and very slowly. I eventually decided to move over to the road but I was soon tailgated by a bus. Since the bus…

Modern snow tires like Schwalbe's Ice Spiker Pro are a far cry from what existed in the olden days. Nowadays it's mainly a matter of having the quads (or electric motor) to drive them. Even with kids in the bicycle trailer, biking as primary transport is straight-forward on 95% of the days in winter.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#267

Post by Tagbert »

Animats wrote: post #185
rsync wrote: post #142

Is it their electric car or is it their car, electric ? I don't want your electric car. I don't want your e-initiative i-mobile green-tech tron-car. I want one of your actual cars, just electric . I don't want an ID.4 - I just want a Passat. I don't want the polestar e-initiative i-concept - I just want a V90 wagon. I don't want a future space truck, I just want a Silverado - but electric. God. Dammit.

How else would they justify the 2x price premium for all-electric? This is a curse of the classic auto manufacturers. Look at the pricing discussed for the all-electric Ford F-150. Somewhere around US$100K. Where the gas car makers have come out with electric cars in a gas car product line, they've usually had about twice the base price. Electric power is priced as a super-premium trim level. "More car per car". This…

In what way is the price of the ID.4 2X? It’s closest match in the VW family is the Tiguan with starts around $26K. Yes, the ID.4 is around $14K more but that is due to the new technology that is slowly becoming more affordable. The first Chevy Volt’s price was around $40K ten years ago while the most recent Volt’s were around $32K last year. I’m sure that VW would prefer to be able to bring the price down to be more competative but in doing so, it would likely be below their cost to manufacture and that is not a good long term strategy.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#268

Post by dreamcompiler »

datavirtue wrote: post #127
dreamcompiler wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW is pretty far behind Tesla in battery technology.[0] Still, this seems like a good car for a large number of drivers. The VW charging network is building out rapidly (I've noticed that VW's chargers are largely in the same locations as Tesla's superchargers. Wonder why?) The Tesla Model Y Long Range is rated at 326 miles and in my experience that's accurate and completely practical. As to your criterion of "500ish…

It is extremely common to fill up any ICE and get nearly 500 miles. It's almost like they sized the tanks to that standard.

I can get that in my diesel pickup not towing (19 mpg and 30 gallons) but no car I've ever owned can get 500 miles from a tank of gas.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#269

Post by shafyy »

rubicon33 wrote: post #242
fassssst wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I had a ID.4 pre-ordered but canceled it after I realized how absurd the price is. I bought a utility e-bike instead and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I barely use my car anymore and biking is way more fun and greener than any car.

I'll never understand this. You presumably are biking on the street, at best in a bike lane, at worst in the shoulder, and are placing so much confidence in other people to not hit you. Given how SHIT other people are at driving, I have no desire whatsoever to be on a bicycle in front of them.

It's important that cities build great biking infrastructure to alleviate this problem.

At the same time, this is used by a lot of people as an excuse to not get a bike. In fact, it's not that dangerous as you make it out to be as is proven by statistics I guess (didn't look them up)

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#270

Post by analog31 »

rubicon33 wrote: post #242
fassssst wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I had a ID.4 pre-ordered but canceled it after I realized how absurd the price is. I bought a utility e-bike instead and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I barely use my car anymore and biking is way more fun and greener than any car.

I'll never understand this. You presumably are biking on the street, at best in a bike lane, at worst in the shoulder, and are placing so much confidence in other people to not hit you. Given how SHIT other people are at driving, I have no desire whatsoever to be on a bicycle in front of them.

I'm a cyclist, and use my bike to get around town, though I also own a car. Of course I can't completely dismiss your sentiment.

Possibly my most important safety measure is route choice. The streets that I ride on have very little car traffic. This includes separated bike paths, but also quiet neighborhood streets. Fortunately this is possible in the town where I live. In decades of riding, I've never experienced a collision with a car, and my near-misses have been rare.

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