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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#171

Post by cblconfederate »

kajecounterhack wrote: post #122
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

New prices are quite prohibitive but the state of things actually isn't the worst for used EVs if you can stomach low range. My family does a two-car approach: 1. Hybrid SUV for actually getting places and moving things 2. ~$4k a used 2013 Smart car. ~45 mile range is good enough for short commute, grocery runs, etc. Charge at home or at work (we have the uncommon situation of no charging at home since we live in a c…

This is probably going to be the most common combination. EVs really shouldn't be cars, they can have so many form factors to fit every lifestyle. For long travel or nature, EVs are overkill

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#173

Post by cameldrv »

rsync wrote: post #142

Is it their electric car or is it their car, electric ? I don't want your electric car. I don't want your e-initiative i-mobile green-tech tron-car. I want one of your actual cars, just electric . I don't want an ID.4 - I just want a Passat. I don't want the polestar e-initiative i-concept - I just want a V90 wagon. I don't want a future space truck, I just want a Silverado - but electric. God. Dammit.

Designing an electric car has a lot of different design tradeoffs than a gas car, so cars that are designed from the ground up as electric are going to perform better than gas cars that are electrified.

The biggest two factors are that the battery is large and heavy, but is flexible in the shape it assumes. For good handling, you'd like to have this weight as low on the car as possible, and close to the center. The almost universally accepted solution is the skateboard design, where the batteries sit under the passengers, spread out over a large area.

The electric motors are also small and you can do away with a lot of systems like the transmission, exhaust, starter motor, alternator, gas tank, various pumps, pollution controls, etc. This means much less need for under hood space.

Once you take these factors into account, the designs of various EVs make a lot of sense.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#175

Post by holtalanm »

wayanon wrote: post #143
akomtu wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of the US population lives paycheck to paycheck and they need cars. I'm not sure their minimum wage can afford them carbon taxes.

It’s weird because I associate car ownership with wealth! I’m in my 40s in London in the UK earning an ok salary and neither me nor many of many friends have a car.

where I live, having reliable transportation (i.e. owning a car) is pretty much a job requirement wherever you work.

a lot of people don't exactly understand just how _sprawling_ the US is.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#176

Post by mikestew »

Koshkin wrote: post #112
fassssst wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I had a ID.4 pre-ordered but canceled it after I realized how absurd the price is. I bought a utility e-bike instead and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I barely use my car anymore and biking is way more fun and greener than any car.

Yeah, California is one of the very few places on Earth where you can do that.

Do what? Use a bicycle for tasks many use a car for? If my guess is correct, I have to ask why you think California is unique in that respect given the absolutely huge set of data to the contrary? I mean, you have heard of the Netherlands, right?

Of course, if my guess is wrong, ignore me. And be more clear next time. :-)

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#177

Post by bognition »

Here is a great no frills review of the ID.4 https://youtu.be/3oC9sUiwyL8

The TL;DR is even if its electric its not a serious competitor to tesla. The UI is terrible as the drive is unable to find a charger while navigating to their destination.

Electric car charging stations are going to look completely different the gas stations as they costs a few thousand dollars to install rather than a cool million for a gas station. So rather than having a bunch of high profile gas stations we're going to end up with somewhat ubiquitous electric charging stations of varying capacity.

Enabling drivers to know where to charge their cars is a killer feature of Telsa and any company that wants to compete will have to make it as easy if not easier to ensure your car is always charged and that you are able to charge on long trips.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#178

Post by jackson1442 »

foepys wrote: post #104
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best-selling[1] vehicle in America, the Ford F-150, had an average sale price of $47,174 in 2018[2]. I'm sure it's only gone up since. Also, the latest version of the map you shared shows the F-150 being the most popular vehicle in 18 states, none of which are California or New York: https://insurify.com/insights/most-popular-cars-in-america-2... --- [1] https://www.autobytel.com/ford/f-150/car-buying-guides/why-…

This shouldn't surprise anybody. Those are used for work like farms and are tax deductible.

Anyone who's driven on a highway in Texas knows this is likely untrue, at least for most F150 owners. I see a shocking number of pristine, washed and waxed F150s every single day when I'm driving. Those and Ram 1500s dominate the roads here.

I don't even live in a rural area. I live in DFW.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#179

Post by elihu »

Someone1234 wrote: post #78
CameronNemo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

Gas is down to $3 and electric $12/kWh, with the state now charging electric vehicles higher registration fees yearly to offset the gas tax savings. There's likely small savings every year, but we're talking almost $20K price difference, maybe $12K with federal (and no state) rebate, you aren't going to be breaking even. Plus fun fact: My insurance would go up a lot with a Model 3 from my current vehicle, 25% more a…

I think you mean 12 cents a kWh? (So, a 60kWh battery can store $7.20 of electricity. Charging isn't perfectly efficient, so more like $8 to fully charge.)

Let's say you can go 200 miles with that $8 of energy, that's 4 cents a mile.

Let's say a gas car is 30 miles per gallon of $3 gas, or 10 cents a mile. Over 200,000 miles, that's $20,000 for fuel, versus $8,000 of electricity in the EV. Seems like the total cost of ownership just about breaks even with federal rebates, and ignoring maintenance costs (generally expected to be higher with the gas vehicle) and ignoring that paying the cost up-front for an EV removes the potential for that money to accrue interest (which favors the gas vehicle).

I'm hoping the EV costs continue to fall until we get to close to parity in terms of vehicle purchase price. This can happen either by battery prices falling, or for people to adjust their expectations and accept shorter range, or for the need for large batteries to become obsolete due to electrified roads that let you charge while the vehicle is still moving.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#180

Post by brokenintuition »

Animats wrote: post #172

But you'll have to be patient; it's still two years away. No, they did not launch their first all-electric SUV. They announced it. There's a difference. [EDIT] Sorry, that's the "ID Buzz." A "people carrier in the spirit of the old Volkswagen microbus."

There's one in my driveway right now, I guarantee you it's not two years away
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