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Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

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Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#781
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You joke, but I think this is actually true. If companies gave their developers of client-facing software slower computers the resulting software would end up being faster.

It's not the end product itself that eats huge amounts of RAM or CPU. It's the dev tooling.

We must be using very different websites.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gaming PC is almost 10 years old and is with an i7 3770. Only upgrade was a GTX 980 five or six years ago. That thing flies for anything and everything I put it through. One day I'll retire it as a gaming machine and convert it to a Linux server or a casual workstation and I am sure it's going to be even faster than Win10.

Yeah, I have two thinkpads -- one from 2010 and one from 2012. Both of them have enough grunt to get through most any task, the heaviest of which is compiling large codebases. One of them was my daily driver for eight years; I only upgraded to a Ryzen because I wanted MOAR COARS and more RAM. It's funny how today's computers could theoretically handle a user's workload for decades yet Apple builds them to fall apart…

TBH a 68040 mac would be useful in 1999.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#783
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s because 99% of regular computer tasks don’t need 24 cores operating at 5 billion cycles per second. The differences between an i7-4xxx and i7-11xxx are more about hardware acceleration, eg HEVC and SIMD. That’s why they look so much better in benchmarks that are designed with that in mind. My main desktop is an unRAID server that hosts multiple VMs. Only yesterday I discovered that I accidentally only…

This is perhaps the real genius of the M1. It's a great chip and all. But when you make it the only choice, people are finding the only choice is more than sufficient. And now Apple only has to produce one piece of silicon for their iMacs, iPad Pro, and Laptops. What a boon for logistics.

The success of the M1 is a boon for Apple, but I'm not sure that only having to produce one CPU to be used across all devices is where the optimization lies, especially considering that Apple is selling the iPhone SE with an older CPU and not simplifying by not selling it.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself. Me personally? I would like one core per Chrome tab.

My new M1 constantly freezes, and I’m pretty sure it’s because of chrome. Or the secret SSD thrashing design flaw that Apple is hoping nobody talks about till they quietly fix it. Was a bit disappointing. I was like, finally! A new thing! I’m freeeeeee..... wait no it still freezes, I miss sandy bridge, etc.

Chrome is by far the worst-performing browser on my (Intel-based) Mac with many tabs open. It doesn’t come anywhere close to keeping up with my browsing style, wasting tons of system resources, glitching, crashing, etc.... and then oh wow the battery drain.

Safari is best, but Firefox is also pretty decent nowadays.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically many modern Android phones today work perfectly well paired wirelessly with modern TV screen. Enable desktop mode, pair with a mouse and keyboard, and you have a kind of working environment: video chat, programming, text editing, office apps - all exists. That's actually how to watch youtube without ads, because non-Android TV has no freetube/newPipe apps.

Sadly I can't use a terminal or VSCode on Android so I can't use it as a development environment.

Termux, Andronix and (Wireless) Dex (Samsung phones only) work pretty well to bring a workable Linux desktop onto an external screen, with the phone as a separate screen for android.

You can also connect a usb-c hub if you want hdmi in and out, network etc. It's even possible to drive 3D printers directly over USB.

As an additonal bonus, for Galaxy Notes and some newer S devices you can use a stylus for art, signing PDFs etc. They also support splitscreen multitasking and virtual desktops which is quite practical if you work from the terminal (emacs).

Certain phones can be very good replacements for a computer if you require the portability.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#786
post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far from being as definitive as you say. Trying to find with one of the best 5800U scores: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/7449909?baselin... It's for 5800H which is at 45W where Ryzen can get a tiny edge.

Ok, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the 5800U@15W. On Cinebench, the 5800U gets much more than the M1 in multicore and slightly more in single core. It even edges out the M1 on Geekbench, though Gb is a poor benchmark.

Cinebench is a rendering load that isn’t that much optimised. (Doesn’t even use the newer AVX levels when available, and isn’t properly optimised for Arm either).

Cinema 4D, the program that Cinebench benchmarks, normally does the renders on NVIDIA GPUs, not CPUs. As such, it’s a very poor benchmark.

And those 5800U results are at probably much higher than 15W. (Because that’s the base config, OEMs are free to ship with higher TDPs)

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#787
post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is really a problem only if you watch tech news. In reality people use computers for years, so having a 4 or 5 year old tech doesn't really matter that much.

Developers should be upgrading on 2-3 year cycles max - the leap in performance of 2 generations noticeably impacts performance and unless you're doing some really trivial stuff - performance matters. Check out Chrome build time benchmarks between 3/4xxx and 5xxx series (or any dev tool related benchmarks). 10-20% off your iteration cycle is noticeable - and that's a single generation jump. Increasing iteration speed…

Personally I'd like if developers stayed a couple of generations behind on their computers, so the rest of us aren't forced to upgrade regularly to keep software running at a decent speed.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once bitten, twice shy. I considered that keyboard to be designed to fail. I'm not interested in gambling that another component won't fail the same way. It's easier to use products that have not demonstrated such designed failures. The good news however is that due to this garbage tier engineering I've discovered that desktop Linux is more stable for me than post-Catalina OSX - I'd have probably never found this out…

Designed to fail is preposterous. Apple lost a ton of money due to that problem, both directly in paying for repairs, and indirectly in damage to their stock price. It's pretty clear what happened, and it's unfortunate but banal: someone went too far with making the key mechanism as thin as possible, and all plastic to make it easier to manufacture. Ends up the plastic wasn't strong enough for the little pins in the…

> It's pretty clear what happened, and it's unfortunate but banal: someone went too far with making the key mechanism as thin as possible

I see it as a symptom of the Jony Ive ideology, untethered from realty by Jobs, poisoning Apple in the early 2010s. iOS7 flat UI, overthin devices, keyboards.

Signs are pointing that Apple is recovering from this (new aTV remote).

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used a recent Macbook? The Macbook Pro keyboard is unique in that is is the only time in my life I have ever experienced a keyboard breaking. I think people are a little too nostalgic when talking about Apple build quality. There's a 2011 MBP here that still works well. But recent releases... no better than the competition really.

Which competitor has a touchpad that’s equal to or better than apple?

I have both an XPS 13 Developer Edition from 2018 and two MacBooks from 2019. The touchpads on both 2019s are not good. They both have difficulty inertial scrolling and the touch rejection is far too sensitive.

Coming from lifelong Linux-land it's actually comical reflecting on how poor these things operate in day to day. The most prominent issue for me is how poorly they operate with my USB-type C dock I use for multi-monitor.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#790
post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is really a problem only if you watch tech news. In reality people use computers for years, so having a 4 or 5 year old tech doesn't really matter that much.

Developers should be upgrading on 2-3 year cycles max - the leap in performance of 2 generations noticeably impacts performance and unless you're doing some really trivial stuff - performance matters. Check out Chrome build time benchmarks between 3/4xxx and 5xxx series (or any dev tool related benchmarks). 10-20% off your iteration cycle is noticeable - and that's a single generation jump. Increasing iteration speed…

Developers may have a reason to upgrade (many don't as ssh isn't going to get any faster-er with a fancy new CPU), but they constitute the part of people that read tech news. This is a minuscule part of general population.

Compiling Chrome is a nice benchmark but in reality dev cycles are quite smaller (or you might want to optimize your toolchain).

Finally, it's quite common for developers to forget the kind of hardware their users are running on. Then they produce software that only runs well on the next gen hardware. If you develop on a beast, then at least test whatever you are producing on a 3-4 year old machine to see how it will work for the clients.

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