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Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

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Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why supporting DRM-free stores is important (e.g. Bandcamp for music and GOG for games).

Are there similar platforms for buying ebooks? I like ebooks but I'm not comfortable with all the layers of DRM involved in it.

Yeah, ebooks are particularly egregious because the readers actually have features that are good or bad and being locked into one or two options at the most severely limits how you consume your books.

What I've doing is buying physical books and then downloading DRM free ebook versions from pirate bay. I know not everyone will agree with those ethics, but I'm ok with it.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The convenience argument is such bullshit. We have been seduced into selling our rights down the river because we will sacrifice anything to this most pathetic of gods, Convenience. I have been fighting in this war (anti-DRM/copyleft/etc) for decades, and peoples' susceptibility to convenience has always effectively thwarted any kind of counter argument. We are fucking lazy and we should be ashamed of it. Yes I am bi…

How long did it take for you to write the machine code that posted this comment?

Nice deflection, but the poster is absolutely right. It's a difficulty I'm having to teach the little ones in my life around. Without the understanding of the real foundational units of computing, but a "flawless" User Experience that results in the ability to get things done regardless, we're decoupling the operating the computer from understanding it, and creating an unhealthy divergence and captive audience. This is unacceptable, and a has terrible implications for the next generation.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#393
post #57

Physical media lets you have privacy without logging when you watch media, what media you consume, how many times you consume it, or how long you consume it. You can enjoy it offline, and in 20 years long after the studio that licensed it is gone. You can give it to a friend or loan it out. Or sell it. It is yours. Meanwhile DRM media we pay full price for, or if the content is only available via streaming we pay for…

> We got scammed. Well, depends on how you look at it and how comfortable you are forgetting about how it looked before you could buy online. I pay for convenience which is a service rather than tangible good. If I need a book for my research, I would prefer to have access to it immediately rather than wait two weeks to get it from overseas. My time is valuable and the pause on the project or inconvenience of not hav…

> I pay for convenience which is a service rather than tangible good.

Piracy is often more convenient than going through the hurdles of a legal purchase.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We got scammed. Well, depends on how you look at it and how comfortable you are forgetting about how it looked before you could buy online. I pay for convenience which is a service rather than tangible good. If I need a book for my research, I would prefer to have access to it immediately rather than wait two weeks to get it from overseas. My time is valuable and the pause on the project or inconvenience of not hav…

The convenience argument is such bullshit. We have been seduced into selling our rights down the river because we will sacrifice anything to this most pathetic of gods, Convenience. I have been fighting in this war (anti-DRM/copyleft/etc) for decades, and peoples' susceptibility to convenience has always effectively thwarted any kind of counter argument. We are fucking lazy and we should be ashamed of it. Yes I am bi…

It's because it's 99% just entertainment, and not that important to most people. Sorry to burst your bubble. Even your use of the word "content" gives the game away.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#395
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at this great story from Richard Stallman: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html

It really pains me that I feel rms has to go. He's just too much of whatever he is in real life. It pains me because he's just so utterly correct on the things he writes and wrote about.

He’s back.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26535224

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#396
I've started torrenting again (did it a lot in the early 00s, but stopped like most others as streaming showed up in a big way). Honestly, once set up the experience is lovely.

- The catalog is enormous, you can almost always find what you want.

- There is robust software that can pull down the latest episode of the tv shows you want.

- There is similar software that can pull down movies based on public lists (e.g. IMDB top 100), so discovery is pretty great.

- All the above can be done on public trackers. Private trackers are even better.

- Many have a community of people who are into the content, and curate their own lists.

- There is software for a home media server so you can flip through all your content. Its also just one interface... no flipping through hulu/netflix/amazon/apple/google.

- That same home media server software can host all videos, so downloads from youtube, family videos, etc... all in one place as you see fit.

- I get to know that know one out there knows what I'm watching or when I'm watching it.

- Backup is easy, with offsite services running ~$0.005/gb/month, so pennies per movie per month. This way I know I'll always have it regardless of what happens with streaming services.

Getting it up and running takes some customization but it is _really_ great. I would gladly pay for such a service, even the typical ~$20/movie price.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#397
post #6

I've seen the phrase "Own it in {HD/BluRay/4K}" so many times and always cringe. You're just owning a limited license ( extremely limited, in the case of digital goods) to watch. The average HN user can spot the difference and say "of course you don't own it, and in case of streaming, you only have access for as long as the service is around", but that's not what the average consumer sees. "Buy" and "own" have very s…

Movies are a mixed bag. But once you own the disk - you, for all intents and purposes, own the movie. I can resell the disc. I can rip and backup the disc and thus have endless copies for myself, preventing me from having to re-purchase that disc. (ripping DVD is much easier than Bluray, I'll admit). IMHO, if i can control a piece of property (or a copy of it) for an indefinite amount of time, if i can copy/backup, w…

Do you prefer Jellyfin over Emby? I'm evaluating which to set up right now.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 years for free is plenty of time to make reasonable income on your creations; after that, you're just seeking rent from society. I strongly dispute this statement, unless your definition of reasonable income does not include at least making back the money you spent on producing the content in the first place. You're ignoring all the small creators who produce new material for niche markets, possibly as a side incom…

Do you think there'd be a good time to draw a line? I can't really see the need for 25+ without a fee.

Do you think there'd be a good time to draw a line?

I suppose that's the $LARGE_AMOUNT question, isn't it?

As a personal opinion, I think copyright is OK as an economic incentive unless and until we find something that works better, but the protection should be determined by what makes it economically reasonable for people to create and share useful works, taking into account all the circumstances and over the long term. There is clearly no single duration of protection that is even close to that benchmark for all situations, because something like a blockbuster movie or smash hit video game might make several times its production costs back within months of initial distribution and that might be a large majority of the revenue it will ever make, while those small, niche-content creators I talked about before might not break even for a decade or two. As ever with debates about alternatives to current copyright, things start to get sticky when you try to figure out a reasonable way to estimate the effects of any proposed change without actually making it and then waiting a decade or three to see what happens.

I like the idea of shortening copyright protection but at the same time considering other rights to protect things of value that are, sometimes incidentally, protected by copyright today. For example, I have no problem with the requirements that exist in some places to credit the creators of a work, as an entirely separate matter from copyright. I think there is also a lot of room to explore safeguards against intruding on a larger creative effort too soon, such as where an author has put considerable effort into world-building and is continuing to produce successful new works set in that world, in which case allowing poor-quality fan fiction to flood the market as soon as the copyright on the first work in that world expires could sharply devalue the overall creative effort for the author and so result in fewer or lower quality works subsequently being produced and shared by that author, which is a harm to society as well.

In short, I don't think you can reasonably draw a single line with anything resembling our current copyright system. I think there should probably be several lines, in each of several colours, and some of them should be circles and triangles. But then given how difficult enforcement often is already and how widespread misunderstandings about the existing law are, that might not be practical either. Economics and intangible goods are a tough combination.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#399
“And that they do this on regular occasions.”

This is news to me. I thought the main advantage of iTunes compared to other services was that purchases would last as long as the iTunes service is operational and that iTunes has outlived “purchase with DRM” services so far. Are there concrete examples?

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#400

This seams the core of Apple's defence: Apple contends that '[n]o reasonable consumer would believe' that purchased content would remain on the iTunes platform indefinitely which is a flagrant difference between ownership of physical items and non-cloud items vs cloud items. This strikes at the root of our society's definition of ownership. Clarification should not depend on Apple, or even a court. This should be ens…

> Apple contends that '[n]o reasonable consumer would believe' that purchased content would remain on the iTunes platform indefinitely

By this definition, any online locked down device (not just the software on it) can only be licensed or rented. Why should any online platform be treated differently from iTunes?

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