Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#351

Post by Qwertious » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

iso1631 wrote: post #89

dataflow wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you define abandonware?

I would require copyright holders to renew their copyright. 5 years for free, then $1 for the 6th year, $2 for the 7th, $4 for the 8th, $8 for the 9th, $1m for the 25th, etc.

I don't think that's the right set of incentives:

1. Different industries have different paces; it might take 25 years for any NASA software to be fully developed in the first place, whereas if you haven't made back your money on your singleplayer videogame after 10 years, you probably won't ever make it back. Point is, there is no flat duration that is fair to every work out there. 2. almost by definition, the stuff we care about is more profitable and will therefore be kept under copyright longer. 3. I wonder whether copyright expiration is actually helpful for software, when it doesn't provide you with source code. I'd like to see some mechanism that incentivizes the IP owner to publish source code after their copyright expires - perhaps by offering a conditional extension to the copyright duration in exchange for putting the source code in escrow?

Really, I don't think software's IP type should be "copyright" in the first place. It doesn't make sense to cut and paste a binary like you would with a book's text.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#352

Post by danbolt » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #256

TeMPOraL wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for the duration that matters. 5 years for free is plenty of time to make reasonable income on your creations; after that, you're just seeking rent from society. Sure, boost that to 10 or even 20 years if needed[0]. But from then on extension costs should grow exponential - otherwise we risk locking down work for duration longer than a human lifetime. Like it already happens with Disney. -- [0] - 20 years may hav…

5 years for free is plenty of time to make reasonable income on your creations; after that, you're just seeking rent from society. I strongly dispute this statement, unless your definition of reasonable income does not include at least making back the money you spent on producing the content in the first place. You're ignoring all the small creators who produce new material for niche markets, possibly as a side incom…

Do you think there'd be a good time to draw a line? I can't really see the need for 25+ without a fee.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#353

Post by lostmsu » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

interlocutor2 wrote: post #295

t0mmel wrote: post #222

This whole streaming idea has also got me thinking about how we are not leaving behind a legacy. There is nothing to discover once you are gone. Your subscription just... ends. I’m not sure that’s how I want to live. I mean, it’s convenient having access. But now that I have had access, it’s clear that I actually still have to shop around on the services, and so I might maybe just as well buy what I want instead of b…

Your legacy is the content you've purchased and not the things you've built?

Previously, yes. You'd leave your kids a library of books.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#354

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

So what about games on the play store, apple store, and steam.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#355

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

ademup wrote: post #187

ghaff wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be somewhat skeptical of the convenience claim. A former colleague argued that the attraction of Napster was more about convenience than price which I didn't really buy. But if we look at the popularity of streaming services today versus owning even DRM-free music, that would seem to support the convenience theory. (It hasn't taken off for books to the same degree but I'd guess that's in part because the va…

Owning music is made much more difficult now that the ability to use it has been greatly diminished. Many new cars don't even come with CD players. Sure, there are work arounds, but I think that moves us beyond a measure of "convenience".

Alternatively you could just download everything you wanted to listen to for the last 30 years.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#356

Post by mhh__ » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

opinologo wrote: post #166

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The books stopped working" is a fantastic writing prompt for a dystopian novel.

Take a look at this great story from Richard Stallman: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html

It really pains me that I feel rms has to go. He's just too much of whatever he is in real life.

It pains me because he's just so utterly correct on the things he writes and wrote about.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#357

Post by browningstreet » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #165

lrvick wrote: post #57

Physical media lets you have privacy without logging when you watch media, what media you consume, how many times you consume it, or how long you consume it. You can enjoy it offline, and in 20 years long after the studio that licensed it is gone. You can give it to a friend or loan it out. Or sell it. It is yours. Meanwhile DRM media we pay full price for, or if the content is only available via streaming we pay for…

> We got scammed. Well, depends on how you look at it and how comfortable you are forgetting about how it looked before you could buy online. I pay for convenience which is a service rather than tangible good. If I need a book for my research, I would prefer to have access to it immediately rather than wait two weeks to get it from overseas. My time is valuable and the pause on the project or inconvenience of not hav…

I've been buying some DVDs off Amazon lately because the movies I want to watch, some of which aren't even that old, haven't been on any streaming service at any price.

Pretty inconvenient.

If we live in a world without physical media, some things will simply disappear forever.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#358

Post by frankish » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #85

wildpeaks wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why supporting DRM-free stores is important (e.g. Bandcamp for music and GOG for games).

DRM-free media stores: https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v11/ (scroll down).

Feel I should add https://libro.fm/ for audiobooks, since missing from that list.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#359

Post by andrewprock » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:27 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #260

sixothree wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have Netflix, Prime, Hulu, Spotify, sometimes Youtube TV, OTA via TIVO. Trust me, TPB is much more convenient.

I can be streaming just about anything purchased/rented a la carte from Amazon in a couple of minutes. It costs more but I don't see how that's less convenient than TPB.

The primary challenge with today's streaming services is determining which platform the content is on, and what tier you need to have to consume the content.

In that way, Amazon Video is one of the most convenient platforms as it has more content than many other platforms, though you may need to pay a rental fee.

When it comes to convenience, for me unified access to the most content trumps most other issues.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#360

Post by nomel » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:28 PM UTC

lrvick wrote: post #57

Physical media lets you have privacy without logging when you watch media, what media you consume, how many times you consume it, or how long you consume it. You can enjoy it offline, and in 20 years long after the studio that licensed it is gone. You can give it to a friend or loan it out. Or sell it. It is yours. Meanwhile DRM media we pay full price for, or if the content is only available via streaming we pay for…

Almost all of my optical media from around the year 2000 oxidized and stopped working. I've lost more CDs, DVDs, and blue rays to scratches than I care to admit. Many of my old photos and books were destroyed with some water damage.

Much of it was due to improper storage, but that's where the very real value of not having something physical or on site comes from.

When I get a choice between cloud and physical, I now always buy cloud from the largest, stable, cloud distributors (Amazon or Apple, never Google or Microsoft). I will pay more if needed. It's a valuable service to me to not have to babysit a movie/book/photo. I've personally never lost anything to DRM, but I've lost dozens of physical media, over the years, for one reason or another.

Freedom is great, but the freedom of not having to lug things around with me is the freedom I would rather pay for. But I'm the type of person that gets terrified when I see someone's DVD /Blueray collection that covers a wall, "I hope you have homeowners insurance".