Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

abc7.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 650 posts

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#81

Post by grecy »

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Average price of new cars purchases in the USA crossed $40k for the first time in 2020 [1]. So I don't think it's that outrageous.

[1] https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/average-new-car-price-202...

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#82

Post by [deleted] »

Someone1234 wrote: post #78
CameronNemo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

Gas is down to $3 and electric $12/kWh, with the state now charging electric vehicles higher registration fees yearly to offset the gas tax savings. There's likely small savings every year, but we're talking almost $20K price difference, maybe $12K with federal (and no state) rebate, you aren't going to be breaking even. Plus fun fact: My insurance would go up a lot with a Model 3 from my current vehicle, 25% more a…

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#83

Post by ajross »

kbos87 wrote: post #2

What I’m really curious to see is whether or not “electric” is the single killer feature it is often positioned as. Semi-autonomous driving and overall UX are two places that Tesla is just so far ahead. I think other manufacturers will make progress, but they are likely to be slow. Electric is compelling but it’s only a small part of the overall value prop for a lot of buyers.

Yeah. I literally just pulled the trigger and am waiting on delivery of a Model Y. The other vendors are at least playing in the same ballpark now. This car, and the Ford Mach-E (I refuse to call a 4-door crossover a "mustang") are both... very reasonable and justifiable purchases. Same price range. Similar (or at least close to) travel range. Similar performance.

But they don't have a supercharger network. They won't have anything like Tesla's autopilot over the life of these units. The software glitz Tesla's app integration brings to the table isn't there, even if the fit and finish is probably better.

It's great to see the traditional automakers getting close finally (almost a DECADE after the Model S shipped!), but... they aren't there yet. Unless you're in love with something very specific about these particular cars, Tesla remains the clear default choice.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#84

Post by varjag »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #66
axaxs wrote: post #5

I'm kicking around the idea of an electric car, but the ranges of these things just utterly disappoint me. With some companies offering, or planning to offer 500ish mile ranges, it would feel immediately outdated to me to throw 40k on something with a ~200 mile range. Is battery tech that different between companies, is it cost prohibitive?

VW is pretty far behind Tesla in battery technology.[0] Still, this seems like a good car for a large number of drivers. The VW charging network is building out rapidly (I've noticed that VW's chargers are largely in the same locations as Tesla's superchargers. Wonder why?) The Tesla Model Y Long Range is rated at 326 miles and in my experience that's accurate and completely practical. As to your criterion of "500ish…

ID4 has 310 miles on its 77KWh, I dunno what "pretty far behind" here is supposed to mean. It's not like Tesla uses some hitherto unknown cell technology…

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#85

Post by Hamuko »

Someone1234 wrote: post #78
CameronNemo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

Gas is down to $3 and electric $12/kWh, with the state now charging electric vehicles higher registration fees yearly to offset the gas tax savings. There's likely small savings every year, but we're talking almost $20K price difference, maybe $12K with federal (and no state) rebate, you aren't going to be breaking even. Plus fun fact: My insurance would go up a lot with a Model 3 from my current vehicle, 25% more a…

The Model S was at least notorious for long and expensive repairs if you got into a crash. Not sure if that's the case for the Model 3 but Model S insurance rates are most probably high because of that.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#86

Post by tpmx »

arcticfox wrote: post #76
tpmx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you're actually describing is the largely fan activist/toy (Yes, Tesla Autopilot is a toy) attitude that's common to a certain kind of Tesla owners. This is embarassing and needs to go so that responsible adults can buy EVs too.

Calling Autopilot a toy seems quite exaggerated to me. I use Autopilot for ~80% of the miles I drive and I love it. I might think the same about Subaru or Cadillac or whatever if I had those, I'm not sure. But none of them are "toys".

They way they market it is the reason it's a toy. This is not a novel argument in any way.

In some circumstances it's a pretty good at L2 self driving. Until it isn't and it kills you if you don't pay attention.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#87

Post by jgalt212 »

axaxs wrote: post #9
black_puppydog wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if there was a perspective to upgrade to a more modern battery later on, that would make a huge difference for these decisions. I wonder how much the actual battery contributes to the production costs. It can't be trivial, right?

Absolutely. If the battery were easily swappable, either by me or a low cost service center, AND a promise of bigger batteries was made, I'd probably bite. But as it sits, it seems like batteries are very central to the car and rather cost prohibitive to swap out.

IIRC, when Formula E used to have pit stops, the driver would enter a new car rather than swapping out or charging batteries.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#88

Post by dreamcompiler »

LeegleechN wrote: post #47
CameronNemo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't think people understand is how quick these batteries can be charged. It is a plug in, get lunch, go to the bathroom, maybe stretch a bit, and get back on the road type of deal. How long does somebody really want to be driving/sitting in a car non-stop?

If your list includes "get lunch" it's not a quick charge. A 1 hour charge time can be planned around but it is still quite constraining.

I always stop for lunch on long car trips. Sometimes I grab a snack at a gas station but I prefer a sit-down meal as a break from driving. That takes about an hour. Now in my EV, I still stop for lunch; I just do so where there's a Supercharger nearby. The only downside is that a Supercharger fillup only takes about 20 minutes and Tesla will start billing me if the car is full and taking up a parking place too long, so sometimes I have to dash out of the restaurant and move the car in the middle of lunch.

The solution I've found for this problem is to grab lunch first, then go recharge at the Supercharger and sit in the comfortable climate-controlled car and either have a post-lunch quicknap or watch Netflix for 20 minutes.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#89

Post by ajross »

foepys wrote: post #68
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Not only that, there are entire continents where electric vehicles are simply not feasible. You cannot drive an EV 100km through mud and forests to get to a town just to charge it. Those EVs are not only very heavy and will sink in mud, they turn into bricks when empty. Have fun getting electricity into the jungle. A gas canister can be brought by anybody and filling the car up is quick. So most likely you will be ha…

To be fair: vehicle density in rural Africa or South America or wherever you're thinking of is extremely low. To first approximation all cars are in cities (because to first approximation all people are in cities), and so to first approximation all cars can be feasibly replaced with EVs.

It's true there will always be edge cases best served by some other technology, but that's true about any device, not just cars.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#90

Post by tzs »

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

I'd definitely like my next car to be electric, and to be an SUV, and I don't want it to be cost much more than a fairly basic configured Honda CR-V. 2021 CR-Vs start at about $26k.

My current car is a 2006 CR-V with about 80k miles on it. It's in good shape and I drive less than 1200 miles/year so should be able to stick with it it for a long time.

My plan is to keep driving my CR-V until:

(1) an electric SUV comparable in price and features to the then current basic CR-V becomes available and switch to that, or

(2) rules change to prevent future sales of new ICE cars, in which case I'll decide if I'm OK with an electric non-SUV. If I am, I'll switch. If not, I'll buy a new ICE CR-V (or Hybrid CR-V if that is still only about 20% more expensive than the base ICE model like it is now), which should be able to last me for the rest of my life, or

(3) the CR-V actually needs to be replaced, in which case I'll do the same as in #2.

Post reply on HN