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Why Lichess will always be free

lichess.org

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Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#271

Post by srg0 »

giords wrote: post #166
9387367 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point. Lichess is creating a very strong competitive advantage by positioning their platform as ad free. Want to put this to a test? Imagine if you were to create a competitor and you also wanted to run ads, now imagine you will be competing with an extremely successful project that people love that doesn’t run ads so you will never be able to offer a better experience to their users. Lichess is u…

You're pretty much describing chess.com

chess.com was founded in 2007. lichess started in 2010. So chess.com was already an established player.

The point is that creating a new chess site today would require to be better than lichess. If we look where Magnus Carlsen investment goes, they are all paid services (Play Magnus/chess24/chessable). He doesn't event try to compete with chess.com/lichess.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#272

Post by sampo »

dagurp wrote: post #154
xorfish wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add https://ourworldindata.org to that list

The first thing I notice on this site is a banner telling me that I will be tracked unless I opt out. This isn't even GDPR compliant.

> This isn't even GDPR compliant.

Our World in Data in run by Oxford University, so outside of EU. The applicability of EU GDPR laws outside EU is a complicated topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#273

Post by phoinix »

Donating CPU time, is one thing unique on lichess compared to other websites. When there is a commercial website, why should i donate CPU for their CEO to put another digit on his payroll?

Considering that ML and chess engines are now only starting, how about making a hybrid model of bitcoin mining and the cpu/gpu cost of analyzing chess games? That way one percentage of the energy consumed of the mining, on bitcoin or whatever, isn't immediately thrown out of the window.

Or maybe making a hybrid model of analyzing the DNA of embryos to find defects, and bitcoin mining for the same reason. One fact not many people know is that economy in ancient Greece, was something women were doing. Men when there was something we wanted, we made wars. I foresee that there will be a digital coin like bitcoin that people will use, and that is gonna start from the women only. We, men, are not cut out like this, exchanging of goods in a peaceful manner.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#274

Post by paulcole »

zimbatm wrote: post #61
pull_my_finger wrote: post #6

> There is absolutely nothing positive about advertisements on websites from the perspective of their users. They eat up valuable screen space and bandwidth for something that nobody wants to see. They often manipulate and misinform. They have even been the source of security vulnerabilities many times in the past. While I share the loathing of modern Ads as a service or whatever the technical name for giving Google/…

Ads are an attack on our attention. When I go to a website, I decide to direct my attention to this website, because I believe it will offer something of interest to me. Obviously things don't come for free, somebody has to pay for it, but the issue is that as a user, I didn't agree to getting my attention diverted. The trade isn't done upfront and by the time I see the ad, it's already too late. There is also a coll…

> Ads are an attack on our attention.

He said after celebrating 10 years posting on a site that’s an ad for a VC fund...

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#275

Post by johannes1234321 »

tnzm wrote: post #259
johannes1234321 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether the code is free or not is irrelevant for that.

Is there any other kind of code which can be ascertained to obey its user?

The question is who audits it etc.

This will become more funny with We assembly. There review isnahrder and even if it is free software it will be ages to verify the code the server delivers matches the source.

There is a fundamental control issue where a license debate is irrelevant detour. (For me this is the biggest flaw in the FSF - they haven't grasped that yet, while smart ideas would be needed)

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#276

Post by LocalPCGuy »

paulcole wrote: post #263
sildur wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have a right to handle their HTML the way I see fit, for instance by blocking their ads. If they don't like it, they should make their website private.

> I also have a right to handle their HTML the way I see fit I see this more as you technically having the ability to do this, but what makes it your “right”?

Not the OP, but I have the right to control what code is delivered to (downloaded) and run on my computer.

That doesn't mean I have the right to use a website that decides they aren't good with me doing so without the ads or other portions I may block.

I don't believe I have any moral obligation to make that choice myself. Simply put, I have the right to block ads, and the website has the right to block usage to me if I don't load said ads, trackers, etc.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#277

Post by ponytech »

oli5679 wrote: post #177
laydn wrote: post #7

Cost breakdown here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Si3PMUJGR9KrpE5lngSk... I hope OVH would donate some compute/machines to lichess. It would help lichess a lot financially. It would be good publicity for OVH and I think it would be a drop in the ocean on their balance sheet.

It's interesting that he spends so little on servers. 1 billion chess games per year, often with >20k concurrent users and and some very heavy-duty engine analysis occurring for some proportion of these games and they only spends $56k. I have seen startups with only hundreds of customers spend 10x this on AWS by copying the fancy tools used by tech giants. It is also interesting how little the creator pays himself ($…

> I would also like to meet this guy, buy him a beer/coffee and thank him for the value he has created:).

I had the chance to met him a few years back during a conference in France[1]. He is very friendly indeed.

1: https://mixitconf.org/en/2015/thibault-duplessis-lichess-org...

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#278

Post by foobarbecue »

phoinix wrote: post #273

Donating CPU time, is one thing unique on lichess compared to other websites. When there is a commercial website, why should i donate CPU for their CEO to put another digit on his payroll? Considering that ML and chess engines are now only starting, how about making a hybrid model of bitcoin mining and the cpu/gpu cost of analyzing chess games? That way one percentage of the energy consumed of the mining, on bitcoin…

What you're describing is a "proof of work" system, such as gridcoin.

Men and women are not intrinsically different in the way you imply they are. That is culturally constructed.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#279

Post by ponytech »

ponytech wrote: post #277
oli5679 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that he spends so little on servers. 1 billion chess games per year, often with >20k concurrent users and and some very heavy-duty engine analysis occurring for some proportion of these games and they only spends $56k. I have seen startups with only hundreds of customers spend 10x this on AWS by copying the fancy tools used by tech giants. It is also interesting how little the creator pays himself ($…

> I would also like to meet this guy, buy him a beer/coffee and thank him for the value he has created:). I had the chance to met him a few years back during a conference in France[1]. He is very friendly indeed. 1: https://mixitconf.org/en/2015/thibault-duplessis-lichess-org...

There's a replay of this talk (from 2015) here: https://www.infoq.com/fr/presentations/lichessorg-open-sourc...

Reminds me memories :)

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#280

Post by jedimastert »

GavinMcG wrote: post #267
jedimastert wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is an "attack" on our attention. It's not a very useful distinction. I clicked the link because the title caught my attention. I come to this website because it has a rotation of good content, all of which is more likely than not to catch and hold my attention, keeping it from something else. I also don't generally agree that all ads are bad, which may put me in the minority

Even accepting that everything counts as an attack, there can't be an ad attacking your attention when it doesn't exist on the page in the first place.

I put "attack" in scare-quotes for a reason. I don't see any of these things as an "attack". If I did, I wouldn't do them.
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