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Why Lichess will always be free

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Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#181

Post by ZephyrBlu »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #124
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming that this stream of income doesn't ever dry up. I personally think that the founder should have enough money to never worry about money, or at least have a big buffer. If at some point in the future for whatever reason Lichess gets less donations, he could be screwed. On the other hand if he had a bit of a warchest he either has runway to increase revenue or to find another source of income.

>If at some point in the future for whatever reason Lichess gets less donations, he could be screwed. No doubt they would get a job like the rest of us. The problem with your proposition is it can never be satisfied, you will never have enough.

> No doubt they would get a job like the rest of us

"I personally think that the founder should have enough money to never worry about money, or at least have a big buffer"

> The problem with your proposition is it can never be satisfied, you will never have enough

Where did you get this idea from? If you control your expenses (Like it sounds like the founder does) then the "never having enough" problem doesn't exist. At that point more money just means a larger buffer.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#182

Post by acatton »

iSnow wrote: post #132
matsemann wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the developer/founder should have a higher salary. $58k a year for running a site with millions of games per day.. deserves more. Is it because they don't get enough donations? Or saving the extra money for growth/buffer? (edit: originally posted this as a top level comment but felt it fit better here) Edit2: just checked. I've spent 11 whole days playing chess there (and not sure if that only counts game…

Gross avg. wage in France is $42700[1] if calculated with 12 months and no variable benefits. Mean would be more interesting, but I don't seem to easily find it. It might sound weirdly low for someone in IT in the USA, but first, not everyone commands FAANG sales, and second, wages in the EU are comparatively low. With some seniority, you can rise to $100k relatively easily, but you have to sell your soul to either s…

> It might sound weirdly low for someone in IT in the USA, but first, not everyone commands FAANG sales, and second, wages in the EU are comparatively low. With some seniority, you can rise to $100k relatively easily, but you have to sell your soul to either some consulting company or old Fortune-500 industries.

Exactly.

The non profit is registered in a small town of Maine-et-Loire.[1] Assuming this is close to where the developer lives, €42k goes a long way there. You also have to factor in that he doesn't have to take the Parisian Metro every morning and live in a tiny apartment for €1,000/month.

[1] See the "Is Lichess a non profit?" https://lichess.org/patron

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#183

Post by yesenadam »

inferense wrote: post #114

This is a bummer. As much as I love lichess, I think there's a beautiful array of opportunities of monetisation which I believe would be nothing short of wrong incentives. Value-based monetisation (instead of restriction / ad based monetisation) might as well motivate the team to maximise that value for the user. Just a couple of examples (for which I'd be actually willing to pay for) 1. Stockfish, server-side game a…

> beautiful array of opportunities of monetisation

I think that's the first time I've seen "beautiful" and "monetisation" in the same phrase.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#184

Post by ZWoz »

maccard wrote: post #112
DorianSinDeep wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While its good that you're willing to compromise in a reasonable manner, I don't think it has particular relevance to the point that advertisements in any form are most likely to be about something you won't go looking for yourself. There are even some companies with no advertisement spending because their product is so essentially useful that people will seek it out themselves.

> There are even some companies with no advertisement spending because their product is so essentially useful that people will seek it out themselves Really? I'd love to hear more about this.

I am not sure, what parent thought and I don't have examples without any spending to advertisement, but there is very "low profile", almost no ads categories. 1) Big business-to-business manufacturers. I haven't ever seen ads for compal or asml. I am sure they are presented in trade shows and contact directly to potential customers. 2) Small data recovery shops. I know few those, one don't advertise at all, one uses only google ads (and only few keywords, not big budget).

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#185

Post by sildur »

dash2 wrote: post #141
zimbatm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are an attack on our attention. When I go to a website, I decide to direct my attention to this website, because I believe it will offer something of interest to me. Obviously things don't come for free, somebody has to pay for it, but the issue is that as a user, I didn't agree to getting my attention diverted. The trade isn't done upfront and by the time I see the ad, it's already too late. There is also a coll…

Use the back button and don't go there again. Website owners need to make a living, they have a right to try to do so the way they see best, and not all consumers share your preferences.

I also have a right to handle their HTML the way I see fit, for instance by blocking their ads. If they don't like it, they should make their website private.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#186

Post by Lio »

topicseed wrote: post #91
zimbatm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are an attack on our attention. When I go to a website, I decide to direct my attention to this website, because I believe it will offer something of interest to me. Obviously things don't come for free, somebody has to pay for it, but the issue is that as a user, I didn't agree to getting my attention diverted. The trade isn't done upfront and by the time I see the ad, it's already too late. There is also a coll…

Would you say the same about free TV's ads coming mid-program? Or newspapers you actually buy that still contain ads? How would such a trade be done upfront in your opinion? In a way, you are the one coming to PLATFORM (site, newspaper, TV program), so don't come back maybe, but don't tell PLATFORM whether they can out a distracting vase at the entrance, or ads on the sidebar, or a distracting ticker at the bottom of…

I recently cancelled a NowTV subscription because of the unskippable trailers at the start of each programme.

For free to air TV I only watch, and it's very occasionally these days, shows that I have recorded to PVR where I skip all the adverts.

I avoid sites with pop-overs for newsletters or animated averts whenever possible.

They're not a "distracting vase at the entrance" they're a "crass man who steps into your path whilst screaming in your face".

I don't know what business models such sites should adopt but I do know that things that invasively take control from me or try to break my concentration, if only for a moment, are things I find deeply unpleasant.

That might say more about me than the advertising industry but there you go.

I'm grateful for sites like lichess and the stance they are taking. It's lovely and quite.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#187

Post by pabs3 »

ratww wrote: post #173
dash2 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use the back button and don't go there again. Website owners need to make a living, they have a right to try to do so the way they see best, and not all consumers share your preferences.

Using the back button is not enough. Even using your method, the website will transmit information about me to several ad networks without my consent about retargeting, about which sites I'm visiting, which sites I visited before (via referrer header) and will fingerprint me. Even with their (mostly non-compliant) GDPR cookie banners, information is still transmitted. As far as I'm concerned, no website owner has eve…

Your browser is the entity transmitting information to ad networks, your browser is obeying instructions from the website instead of obeying your instructions.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#188

Post by fsflover »

pabs3 wrote: post #187
ratww wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the back button is not enough. Even using your method, the website will transmit information about me to several ad networks without my consent about retargeting, about which sites I'm visiting, which sites I visited before (via referrer header) and will fingerprint me. Even with their (mostly non-compliant) GDPR cookie banners, information is still transmitted. As far as I'm concerned, no website owner has eve…

Your browser is the entity transmitting information to ad networks, your browser is obeying instructions from the website instead of obeying your instructions.

Which happens because you run non-free JS code: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#189

Post by vixen99 »

This was not the best of examples - 'Imagine if scientists kept the result of every scientific study to themselves.'. Given that most science is funded ultimately by taxpayers either directly or via money borrowed on their behalf by governments, this would be an indefensible position aside from demonstrating an ignorance of how science progresses.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#190

Post by lavp »

Lichess is truly on a class of its own. It delivers a better service than any of it’s alternatives (in my opinion), and it’s actually 100% free with no BS.

Funny enough, I’ve donated around $30 in total which is $30 more than I would’ve ever thought of spending on a chess site. Hats off to thibault and the open source community for creating such a wonderful gem.

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