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Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

extremetech.com

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Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#361

Post by hkstm »

GordonS wrote: post #315
arvinsim wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web Developer here. Wouldn't accept anything less than 32GB for a work machine.

Yep, if you're running big IDEs (e.g. Rider/IntelliJ, Visual Studio), containers and VMs, 32GB is really a must. There always seem to be people in these threads claiming that 16GB or even 8GB is enough - I just don't understand how that could possibly be for most of the HN demographic.

Do you think most of the HN demographic is actually running big IDEs, containers and VMs at the same time? I'm personally a CS student and never had to run more than a few lightweight docker containers + maybe one running some kind of database + VS Code and that has been working fine on a laptop with 8GB and pop_os. Could imagine that a lot of other people on HN are also just generally interested in tech but not necessarily running things that require a lot of memory locally.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#362

Post by raxxorrax »

thehnguy wrote: post #311
raxxorrax wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an M1 from work (which I now mainly use for private stuff...) and it does have 16gb memory. It did cost a bit less than $1700 (after taxes) I believe, although I am not sure. I know it has some upgraded gpu compared to the standard model in some form, but didn't know about the memory. As for the device: It is neat, but not revolutionary to any degree. I do paint and model and can run blender/krita just fine, i…

The M1 isn't what kills x86 (if it ever does completely). ARM kills x86. Microsoft is working on the ARM transition. ARM has good control of mobile hardware. And Apple will be only selling ARM hardware (in the form of Apple Silicon) in another 12-18 months. M1 and Apple Silicon are just part of the trend.

The main feature for me isn't the ARM, it is that the device is passively cooled and still very performant. If that isn't possible with x68, ARM might have a chance perhaps. But 99% of my time is still spend on that platform.

I just wish I could install Linux.... If MS and Apple just provide their locked down environments, it will never be more to me than a neat device and I would still crosscompile instead of binding myself to a manufacturer.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#363

Post by FearlessNebula »

eertami wrote: post #344
skohan wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Ryzen laptop currently competes with the latest macbooks in terms of form factor, performance, battery life and build quality? I'm honestly asking, I've been thinking about getting a Linux laptop in a while and I would be curious to see what the playing field is like

Have you used a recent Macbook? The Macbook Pro keyboard is unique in that is is the only time in my life I have ever experienced a keyboard breaking. I think people are a little too nostalgic when talking about Apple build quality. There's a 2011 MBP here that still works well. But recent releases... no better than the competition really.

The keyboard has been fixed since 2019

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#364

Post by paulcole »

oblio wrote: post #235
the_duke wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the marketing effort is immense, and it's really surprising to me how many eagerly lap up the angle Apple is pushing without much reflection, even on HN. Like the good old Apple hype days. Now to be fair, the M1 is an impressive iteration on the A* chip line. But the Ryzen 5000 mobile chips really don't look bad at all in comparison, and a 5nm version of those would level the field.

I don't know why you're being downvoted. A 5nm version of the AMD stuff should be reasonably close to the M1. The main bottleneck is the production capacity, we badly need more manufacturers of high end chipsets.

> A 5nm version of the AMD stuff should be reasonably close to the M1.

Reasonably close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Until a 5nm version of the AMD stuff can run MacOS, there’s no point comparing the 2.

If the AMD stuff blows past the M1 (or the M-whatever), Apple’s marketing will turn on a dime.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#365

Post by nl »

oblio wrote: post #227
mysterydip wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine if you're buying new. Is there an i5 that beats an older i7 in performance? When buying a used laptop or desktop, how much extra research do I need to do to figure out which processor I'm actually getting? There's been 13 years of i7's.

I can't ever imagine why manufactures of > don't use dates. Product lines 1 - 10. Bigger is better. A minimal number of qualifiers next to the numbers, ideally just 1 of them next to a product line number (Pro/Home/Hobby/Enterprise/whatever). Date, month and year format if you really want flexibility. OblioCorp Oblio 1 Home 2020.06. Oblio 10 Enterprise 2021.04. How hard is that? Not that hard, from where I'm standing…

Because approximately no one in the whole supply chain wants to be stuck with a part dated last year.

And product lines are speced 12 months in advance.

So you need precise demand prediction all the way along your supply chain for this to work.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#366

Post by theshrike79 »

iSnow wrote: post #179
sto_hristo wrote: post #153

Make it as fabulous as much as you want, $1700 for an 8 core, 8 gigs of ram machine is just one plain fabulous joke. This in the time when 16 gigs ram is the baseline if you plan to do anything more than facebook and instagram.

I am not sure what the end-game for releasing those under-powered machines is, tbh. I am a bit more extreme in that I am not buying any machine below 32GB given RAM is no longer upgradable, but even if my mom came and asked me about those iMacs, I'd tell her to not buy. It's a shame that Apple is so great at greenwashing and at the same time spits on every way they could help create truly sustainable products by just…

Apple has WAY more statistics about what kind of computers people buy and use.

I'm pretty sure they're not nickle & diming people with 8GB RAM M1 machines, someone somewhere has calculated that as being enough for most users.

HN hardly is the place to compare what is "min spec" :)

(As I'm writing this, my i7 MBP sounds like a jet taking off, CPU capped near 100%. Normal day at the office.)

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#367

Post by KptMarchewa »

Grustaf wrote: post #305
oblio wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you're being downvoted. A 5nm version of the AMD stuff should be reasonably close to the M1. The main bottleneck is the production capacity, we badly need more manufacturers of high end chipsets.

So a future hypothetical AMD processor could be as good as the M1, and that shows how M1 is just marketing hype?

It's only "future" because Apple strongarms the whole market with their market position buying whole 5nm TSMC capacity

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#368

Post by zitterbewegung »

the_duke wrote: post #189
klelatti wrote: post #150

One thing which I don't think has been commented on is the marketing effort behind the M1. It's getting a lot of prominence and its use across lots of computers means that there can be a consistent message that "M1 is great - get a new Mac and get an M1". It also provides an opportunity to distinguish between M1 and the next generation M2 (presumably). I've always thought Intel's marketing was a bit confused - i7 sta…

Yeah the marketing effort is immense, and it's really surprising to me how many eagerly lap up the angle Apple is pushing without much reflection, even on HN. Like the good old Apple hype days. Now to be fair, the M1 is an impressive iteration on the A* chip line. But the Ryzen 5000 mobile chips really don't look bad at all in comparison, and a 5nm version of those would level the field.

With the M1 in the latest iPad Pros I’m not even sure if Apple will keep the Ax line but instead to upgrade their low to high end with just Mx series processors .

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#369

Post by alberth »

ARM is not more efficient / faster because it’s “newer”.

People imply ARM is relatively new and thus could correct for the misdirection x86 has gone.

1978 is when x86 was introduced.

1985 is when ARM was introduced.

ARM isn’t that much newer than x86.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#370

Post by theshrike79 »

giorgioz wrote: post #334

M1 is the fastest Apple CPU YET. I suspect in the fall they will release the M2 for MacBook Pro 15 inches. They have also delayed releasing the MacBook Pro 15inches with Intel on purpose in my opinion. When they will release the MacBook Pro 15 inches with M2 they will compare it with the Intel version with a 3 years old processor. I don't trust the Apple benchmarks much. They are choosing what to compare and what met…

> M2 for MacBook Pro 15 inches

16" will be the size, like in the current gen. External form factor about the same size as the old 15", but smaller bezels.

If they come up with a 16" M2 with 16GB+ of RAM they'll be out of stock for MONTHS, everyone I know will be upgrading from their pre-touchbar Macbooks.

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