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Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

bbc.com

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Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#341

Post by throwaway2037 »

vasco wrote: post #328
throwaway2037 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's get more specific. What is reasonable compensation that should Egypt demand?

A pilot from the canal was on board, how is it not their fault? (Zero compensation)

I don't know the rules of the canal, but I highly doubt this scenario. The Egyptian gov't basically has a monopoly and can charge anything they want and write any rules they want. Of course, ships are free to circumvent Africa (around the Cape of Good Hope) if they disagree.

More likely: Ships are required by rules to have an Egyptian pilot on-board during the passage, and there is limited legal liability for ordinary operating circumstances. That said, if an Egyptian pilot was found grossly negligent of their duties, then they would be liable. However, in most legal systems, this is an exceptionally high bar. And, I assume if you pass the canal, you subject yourself to the Egyptian court system. (Read about the big cruise ship that ran aground in Italy. That story reads like text book gross negligence!)

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#342

Post by jopsen »

bluGill wrote: post #274
mgolawala wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that is the part I do not understand. Isn't there a law at sea where if you find an abandoned ship, it is basically yours? Perhaps this law doesn't apply in Egyptian national waters? If he is the legal guardian of the ship, why wouldn't he be able to just sell it for profit and move on? Was it just that there would be no buyer for it, even to scrap it? Or could there have been fines/liens on that ship such that…

International salvage law is complex, but essentially no. The ship is stills owned.by someone even when at the bottom of the sea and if you take anything from the ship without permission that is theft. Salvagers work on contract with the owners in most cases. When they don't there are generally big lawsuits because they are entitled for compensation for their work, but if they don't give anything brought up back the…

The company also owes him a salary, he is in possession of company property, selling said property to recuperate lost salary seems reasonable.

I'm no lawyer (so don't try this at home), and I bet you'd need to find a good lawyer to get a with a trick like that :)

But as a creditor in possession of property owned by the debitor, selling said property to recuperate losses doesn't seem entirely unreasonable.

Certainly, not if debitor does not take action recover possession of the property, etc.

Even if he got into trouble after selling the ship, I would hope a jury would side the person being held for "ransom by said property".

But yes, between Egyptian and Syrian courts, I suppose there is a serious risk you'll get squashed either way. Because we can't have sailors selling their ships :)

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#343

Post by vkou »

vasco wrote: post #328
throwaway2037 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's get more specific. What is reasonable compensation that should Egypt demand?

A pilot from the canal was on board, how is it not their fault? (Zero compensation)

The pilot is supposed to steer the ship, but the captain is ultimately responsible for it.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#344

Post by yerwhat01010 »

LegitShady wrote: post #222
yerwhat01010 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also say that the relationship between the average 10th-centry peasant and his feudal lord strikes me as a lot less "exploitative" than the typical employee-employer relationship today.

...please explain your point using a logical argument, because on its face it's ridiculous and untrue.

Wait, I'm an idiot. I wrote "less exploitative" when I went to write more exploitative. You're right: to say that it's less exploitative would be absurd.

I need to write fewer posts when it's late at night...

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#345

Post by Popegaf »

novok wrote: post #179
jollybean wrote: post #130

Folks - this is what we are outsourcing and externalizing. When foreign entities are able to bid for a lot less, and pay a lot less, a lot of it has to do with the fact that they will not bother with 'end of life' for ships, or getting insurance, or worrying about the lives of people who are 'expendable'. Those very nice buildings in Dubai come from some nasty labour practices. If every piece of this puzzle from end-…

The fault here is ultimately with egypt. They were not letting him leave, they took his passport and not even letting him get 'deported' back to his home country. This is not from outsourcing, this is Kafkaesque bureaucracy created by Egypt itself.

I disagree, ultimately, we the consumers are at fault. We buy the cheapest products (or the flashiest: see Apple) and these are the consequences. Companies have to save costs to compete because we won't agree to pay more. We won't vote for politicians that make everybody's life better: we will vote for politicians who promises that "the other guys" are going to suffer and that "you or your group" is going to have an easy life.

Somewhere down the line, yeah, Egypt is to blame, but we are the source of the problem - we are to blame. If you want these kind of things to decrease, try to buy local products, try to buy second hand, try to vote for the benefit of everybody (not just you or your group), try to pollute less, try to be conscious about the effects of your actions, and be less egoistic.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#346

Post by aarchi »

Black101 wrote: post #312
mrb wrote: post #106

His ship has been sitting still for so long that you can see it on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D8%B3%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%86%D... Edit: a few more story details here: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/19/ever-giv... When he rows to shore to get supplies he can only stay for two hours at most as the area is a restricted military zone. Other crew members were repatriated in September 2019,…

so he had a free home at the beach for 4 years? what is this circle, anyways: https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D8%B3%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%86%D...

The circle is centered around Green Island. Several more circles can be seen further south near Ras Abu Rudeis. It seems that water only seems to be displayed near land and is replaced with simulated blue otherwise.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#347

Post by tobyhinloopen »

pwillia7 wrote: post #165
Kye wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says the ship had no fuel.

I would have had my brother dinghy out to me one of the passes.... I guess though since this is in a major shipping lane you'd probably get taken out by a ship.

I can imagine you can’t just use a 20L jerry can to fill her up

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#348

Post by [deleted] »

Popegaf wrote: post #345
novok wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fault here is ultimately with egypt. They were not letting him leave, they took his passport and not even letting him get 'deported' back to his home country. This is not from outsourcing, this is Kafkaesque bureaucracy created by Egypt itself.

I disagree, ultimately, we the consumers are at fault. We buy the cheapest products (or the flashiest: see Apple) and these are the consequences. Companies have to save costs to compete because we won't agree to pay more. We won't vote for politicians that make everybody's life better: we will vote for politicians who promises that "the other guys" are going to suffer and that "you or your group" is going to have an…

[deleted]

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#349

Post by krisoft »

vasco wrote: post #328
throwaway2037 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's get more specific. What is reasonable compensation that should Egypt demand?

A pilot from the canal was on board, how is it not their fault? (Zero compensation)

Per the Suez Canal Authority - Rules of Navigation Article 4, section 7 (page 7):

“(7) Owners, mobilizers, charterers and/or operators bind themselves responsible for any mistakes resulting from pilot’s advice or arrise by SCA personnel.”

https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/Navigation/Pages/Ruleso...

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#350

Post by account42 »

rfrey wrote: post #300
nickff wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says the parent company is in financial difficulties, and the individual in question was basically being held for ransom (along with the ship). Depending on the ordering of debts (for the company), they may not have been able to compensate the Egyptians. All of that being said, I agree an American company likely would have had this sorted out faster, because the USA tends to deal with bankruptcies and the…

Most of these ships are owned by single vessel companies, much like power plants. This allows the massive shipping companies to walk away from individual vessels.

> are owned by single vessel companies

This legal fiction is only true as long as it is allowed to be. Egypt can see who was operating and using the ship and block their other ships until they fix the issue - they don't need to hold a scapegoat hostage for years.

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