x86 is dead - first in consumer, then in cloud. It is hard to see to me how this ends any other way. The creative class (us) will quickly have largely all ARM computers within 4 years. Its not hard to see from there how software will be even more optimized for ARM variants than x86 and that the scale of both mobile and consumer computing will push x86 out of the datacenter slowly as old software that relies on x86 is…
waiting for the gaming console announcement
Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
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Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
#52Assuming the M1 performance extrapolates to desktop power/cooling it's going to be a monster chip. If that is the case I think apple will not stop at having the fastest watch/phone/tablet/laptop/PC. Why not go after the datacenter and leave money (a ton of money) on the table?
For certain applications, the migration will be challenging. It's also a slowly dying market. Amazon has an ARM instance, already. I'm sure they're already tearing the M1 apart to see what they can use. It's also no Apple's core competency; enterprise sales is a different beast.
Edit: I wasn't quite clear: it's dying because businesses are migrating to the cloud, and cloud providers are already working on/support ARM CPUs. Google might be willing to buy M1 chips. Not servers or boards because everything is probably custom by now, just the chips.
Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Only if I can buy a desktop/laptop with a powerful ARM processor and plug-in a bootable usb and install operating system (arm version) of my choice with all drivers etc working fine.
I expect this will be the case with Linux on the M1 in a year or two, given the pace of marcan's work. Windows depends on Microsoft's willingness, of course.
Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
#54x86 is dead - first in consumer, then in cloud. It is hard to see to me how this ends any other way. The creative class (us) will quickly have largely all ARM computers within 4 years. Its not hard to see from there how software will be even more optimized for ARM variants than x86 and that the scale of both mobile and consumer computing will push x86 out of the datacenter slowly as old software that relies on x86 is…
Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
if you are not using an apple phone, your smartphone likely uses an ARM-licensed chip, and chromebooks/windows RT devices ran ARM cores the only thing holding back wider adoption is legacy x86 software
Also Raspberry Pi’s are ARM. ARM Macs run x86 software great (my experience) and ARM Windows machines run x86 software adequately (I have read). Don’t know how well QEmu works on Linux - haven’t tried it but know it’s available.
Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
#56Assuming the M1 performance extrapolates to desktop power/cooling it's going to be a monster chip. If that is the case I think apple will not stop at having the fastest watch/phone/tablet/laptop/PC. Why not go after the datacenter and leave money (a ton of money) on the table?
> Why not go after the datacenter For certain applications, the migration will be challenging. It's also a slowly dying market. Amazon has an ARM instance, already. I'm sure they're already tearing the M1 apart to see what they can use. It's also no Apple's core competency; enterprise sales is a different beast. Edit: I wasn't quite clear: it's dying because businesses are migrating to the cloud, and cloud providers…
Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
#57Ryzen 7401p still represents the pinnacle-for-it's-time value offering to me. 24 cores, single socket, on a 14nm process, launched July 2017 for $1075. Just an amazing breakthrough processor. At the time there were supposed to be X300 and A300 chipsets coming, basically just boot bios, to make ultra-low cost motherboards possible. There have been improvements since then to architecture & IPC, but overall it feels lik…
> but the company’s decision to eschew clock speed disclosures There's one other major factor here: clock speed isn't all that useful for this new architecture full of custom-purpose cores, asymmetric cores, a new arrangement of connections between cores, etc. Actual benchmarks may be useful, but not so much a clock speed measurement (and which of those various asymmetric cores are you measuring against?).
I felt like it was probably one of the first possible custom cores I'd seen, something specifically built for Chromebooks or Pixel or whatever the product was. That probably this part was not listed on Intel ark. But it was super distressing none-the-less: I had been denied any understanding what-so-ever of what kind of core was going to be within. There's more than MHz, yes, but also not knowing process (nm), not knowing wattage, not knowing caches... Google was asking me for something unprecedented: to spent ~$1000 on a system for which I had no understanding at all of expected performance.
It felt like a dark dark dark dark day. After decades of in depth analysis & review of every cache change, every TLB tweak, after endless in depth review of cores, we'd entered a bold new era. Where none of of what you really were buying was regarded as consumer-pertinent.
There's some "bright" spots but they are somewhat obfuscated. Lenovo's M75q gen2 with AMD 4750GE was an amazing package, regularly on sale for a very reasonable price with amazing performance[1]. But alas, it's rare that the genuine performance is known, is what is for sale. We have become a post-consumer market. The invisible hand operates at a post-consumer level, selling us on other, more illusory factors than capability. Truth vanishes. And yes, as this article says, many people just don't need to play the game in the first place, but still, the becoming invisible, the vanishing of actual competition is most dismaying.
[1] https://www.servethehome.com/lenovo-thinkcentre-m75q-gen2-ti...
Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
#58Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple differentiates the majority of their products by generation rather than binning. If you buy a low-end iPad, you get an A12; the iPad Air steps you up to an A14; and the iPad Pro gets you an M1. This is less evident on the Macintosh side of the business right now because they're just trying to get M1 silicon into as many product lines as their fab capacity will allow. They don't actually have an M2 (or even M1X)…
> Apple differentiates the majority of their products by generation rather than binning. This simplifies things for consumers, but how do you make chips without binning? Are they all just that reliable? Do they all have extra cores? Maybe Intel bins more because they can squeeze out a significantly better price for more core and cache, but Apple's margins are already so high they don't care?
Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
They already said they would be 100% off x86 in two years: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/06/apple-announces-mac-t... We are still only 6 months into that transition.
The page you're citing contradicts that statement -- they will not be 100% off x86, but instead will offer 100% of their products with the option of buying an Apple ARM chip: > This transition will also establish a common architecture across all Apple products, making it far easier for developers to write and optimize their apps for the entire ecosystem. > Apple plans to ship the first Mac with Apple silicon by the e…
If you look at the PPC to x86 transition [0] it happened faster than predicted, and OS support only lasted 3 years after it was done.
IMO Microsoft is the company that heavily prioritizes backwards compatibility, while Apple is happy to drop support where necessary to move forward.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_transition_to_Intel_proces...