So, does he own the ship now?
Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
291–300 of 426 posts
Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nasty labour practices... It's just slavery. This poor gentleman was forced into slavery. You're right that this is what we're outsourcing. All of the corporate trade agreements - American manufacturing was shipped overseas, and American labor forced to compete with what is often a modern form of slave labor.
If you call indentured servitude slavery, you're not helping - it just lessens the dynamic range of language. It sure doesn't help actual slaves.
> If you call indentured servitude slavery
You’re being perfectly accurate; indentured servitude is consistent with both historical understandings of slavery and modern legal definitions; it was certainly distinct from the particular form of chattel slavery that was popular for a few hundred years and fell out of fashion in thr 19th century, and it is useful to be able to distinguish them since they overlapped in time and space, but that particular form of slavery was not the historically dominant form, itself, and it doesn’t make sense to narrow the definition to that particular form.
While, certainly, that form of chattel slavery was the most immediate concern for, say, American abolitionists, I think they would see it as badly missing the point and not actually abolishing slavery if indentured servitude had been restored to replace chattel slavery.
Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fault here is ultimately with egypt. They were not letting him leave, they took his passport and not even letting him get 'deported' back to his home country. This is not from outsourcing, this is Kafkaesque bureaucracy created by Egypt itself.
It seems like the court basically enslaved him.
That's how contempt of court rules generally work in common-law countries, even in the west.
Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you call indentured servitude slavery, you're not helping - it just lessens the dynamic range of language. It sure doesn't help actual slaves.
> If you call indentured servitude slavery You’re being perfectly accurate; indentured servitude is consistent with both historical understandings of slavery and modern legal definitions; it was certainly distinct from the particular form of chattel slavery that was popular for a few hundred years and fell out of fashion in thr 19th century, and it is useful to be able to distinguish them since they overlapped in tim…
Yup, not the dominant form.
However I found a curious tidbit the other day; the 1619 ship had indentured servants not slaves. Not to belittle their plight, as they were de facto slaves as soon as they got on the ship.
Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The wealthy exploiting the poor predates capitalism by 10s of thousands of years. I feel like in order to make this claim, you'd need a pretty detailed definition of what "capitalism" is.
You should check out the book "Debt: The first 5000 years" by Graeber. It covers this topic in depth. My summary won't do it justice, but basically our society has a myth that society has always been capitalistic, but there is some evidence that is not true. It's a pretty interesting take on some fundamental economic thoughts and theories, because the author is an anthropologist.
It's also littered with factual errors (I'm not an academic but even I spotted an outright falsehood), which makes one rather dubious of the overall thesis.
Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
#296Folks - this is what we are outsourcing and externalizing. When foreign entities are able to bid for a lot less, and pay a lot less, a lot of it has to do with the fact that they will not bother with 'end of life' for ships, or getting insurance, or worrying about the lives of people who are 'expendable'. Those very nice buildings in Dubai come from some nasty labour practices. If every piece of this puzzle from end-…
Err here in the United States you have people pissing in bottles and bags because they can't take a break without missing targets. The West is not immune to predatory hiring and employment practices.
It seems fairly easy to get a union if a workplace wants one...
Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
#297His ship has been sitting still for so long that you can see it on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D8%B3%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%86%D... Edit: a few more story details here: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/19/ever-giv... When he rows to shore to get supplies he can only stay for two hours at most as the area is a restricted military zone. Other crew members were repatriated in September 2019,…
Wow, 90+ reviews with the "hashtag"/slogan Free Mohammed.
Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article says the parent company is in financial difficulties, and the individual in question was basically being held for ransom (along with the ship). Depending on the ordering of debts (for the company), they may not have been able to compensate the Egyptians. All of that being said, I agree an American company likely would have had this sorted out faster, because the USA tends to deal with bankruptcies and the…
Seems to me that corporations owning ships having financial difficulties would be a natural consequence of outsourcing behaviour. You want to outsource risk and responsibilities. So the big companies get rid of their ships and hire small companies on the edge of profitability. I assume it's not always the most sound way to do business but some should get away with it.
How? I mean there are shady American transport firms.
This isn’t the result of big massive conglomerates. It’s mom and pop small firms.
People to small and broke to sue.
Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
#299Can Someone ELI5?
Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
Egypt definitely has fault here, but the company that owns the ship could have gotten the ship out of there if they cared about him at all. Yes, it might have been expensive, but I would expect a US based company to have rescued him within weeks of this situation starting, not years.
The article says the parent company is in financial difficulties, and the individual in question was basically being held for ransom (along with the ship). Depending on the ordering of debts (for the company), they may not have been able to compensate the Egyptians. All of that being said, I agree an American company likely would have had this sorted out faster, because the USA tends to deal with bankruptcies and the…
Most of these ships are owned by single vessel companies, much like power plants. This allows the massive shipping companies to walk away from individual vessels.