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LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

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Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#111

Post by kragen »

patrickaljord wrote: post #93
blhack wrote: post #44

They can't go back now. Before this, mostly what they were doing was small time. DOSing a website, or leaking some emails is annoying, this could potentially get people killed. This is max level from what I'm reading so far (others' reports, I'm not touching that torrent). Homeland security info, info on ongoing investigations, etc. etc. This might actually make lulz more dangerous. They have nothing to lose now. Bef…

> (others' reports, I'm not touching that torrent) This is ridiculous, thousands of people are downloading that right now and the details will be on the news anyway. > If [when] they get caught, they're going to prison for the rest of their lives or worse. Only if they're from the US. In most of western Europe, maximum is 20 to 30 years and only for murders or specific crimes. For that they'd probably just get a few…

> In most of western Europe, maximum is 20 to 30 years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Oury_Jalloh

"In 2007, two officers were charged with causing bodily harm with fatal consequences and with involuntary manslaughter, respectively, but were acquitted in December 2008 for want of evidence."

In Western Europe, the cops can still get away with killing you if they don't believe that the penal system will properly punish you. In the UK, they kill more than one person per month:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Deaths_in_Custody

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#112

Post by kragen »

Alex3917 wrote: post #108
blhack wrote: post #44

They can't go back now. Before this, mostly what they were doing was small time. DOSing a website, or leaking some emails is annoying, this could potentially get people killed. This is max level from what I'm reading so far (others' reports, I'm not touching that torrent). Homeland security info, info on ongoing investigations, etc. etc. This might actually make lulz more dangerous. They have nothing to lose now. Bef…

"DOSing a website, or leaking some emails is annoying, this could potentially get people killed." Because the 39,000+ people already killed due to the laws the Arizona police are enforcing don't count.

Citation?

Your comment seems to imply that the police are responsible for causing the Mexican drug war, but I believe that if the Arizona police were to resign en masse and move to other states, it would probably make the situation worse, not better; the drug cartels would expand to fill the power vacuum, and they are less accountable than the police.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#113

Post by kragen »

patrickaljord wrote: post #107
sliverstorm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous You begrudge someone the desire to not accidentally get caught up in something they could land in prison for?

This is not the first time a torrent containing breached information has been released. No one has ever been sued for downloading the torrent, not even with the wikileaks cable. Parent's post reads a tad alarmist and dramatic in my opinion but maybe that's just me.

People who download illegal torrents might be profiled and the information used against them later.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#114

Post by rdtsc »

watty wrote: post #26
roc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you've never been in a car when a cop plays the "I smell pot Joe. What do think?" game. Police officers do have a sworn duty. But some of them do not uphold their oaths. Some of them even break the law outright. It's therefore quite possible to have an issue with law enforcement, separate from the laws themselves.

Some cops are crooked so screw them all? This happens in every profession, not just law enforcement. Edit, to the poster below: There have been many cases where a man and women have sex and the woman later claims she was raped. Try to find a case of word vs. word (no other evidence) and the man was found not guilty. Now, try to find the opposite.

> Some cops are crooked so screw them all? Some cops are crooked so screw them all?

However if most of them are crooked, it is pretty safe to informally say "screw them all" (as opposed to linking to scientific studies and then proclaiming that "screw 59.45% of them" or something like that).

And btw, those that are engaged in cover-up of abuses of fellow cops are crooked just the ones engaging in abuse.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#115

Post by sukuriant »

abbasmehdi wrote: post #106
sukuriant wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a fair statement, as is Daeken's. I think half of what I was thinking of when I wrote that was also related to those police officer's private data (name, address, phone number, wife's name...). These things need not be shared, and the person I responded to, and their tone, seemed to suggest that this information should be released.

The person you responded to (me) clearly stated that personal information should have not been released.

You said family's names. I argue that their names, addresses and phone numbers shouldn't have been released. The fact that some of them have wives with name X is just another piece of personal info that shouldn't have been released, but it certainly isn't all of it.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#116

Post by Alex3917 »

kragen wrote: post #112
Alex3917 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"DOSing a website, or leaking some emails is annoying, this could potentially get people killed." Because the 39,000+ people already killed due to the laws the Arizona police are enforcing don't count.

Citation? Your comment seems to imply that the police are responsible for causing the Mexican drug war, but I believe that if the Arizona police were to resign en masse and move to other states, it would probably make the situation worse, not better; the drug cartels would expand to fill the power vacuum, and they are less accountable than the police.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War

Honestly, having the mexican drug violence spill over into the border states is probably the best thing that could ever happen to this country.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#117

Post by true_religion »

Alex3917 wrote: post #108
blhack wrote: post #44

They can't go back now. Before this, mostly what they were doing was small time. DOSing a website, or leaking some emails is annoying, this could potentially get people killed. This is max level from what I'm reading so far (others' reports, I'm not touching that torrent). Homeland security info, info on ongoing investigations, etc. etc. This might actually make lulz more dangerous. They have nothing to lose now. Bef…

"DOSing a website, or leaking some emails is annoying, this could potentially get people killed." Because the 39,000+ people already killed due to the laws the Arizona police are enforcing don't count.

That's an awfully specific number.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#118

Post by kragen »

I think it's worthwhile remembering where direct attacks on the authorities led to last time around. It started World War I, ended economic globalization for decades, and delegitimized anarchism to the point where it was essentially exterminated worldwide. In the US, new "conspiracy" laws were enacted which allow you to be prosecuted for talking to someone about how you could hypothetically commit a crime if they later go off and execute one of the steps in your plan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_of_the_deed#Timeline...

I hope the kind of violent rhetoric they're spewing doesn't end up provoking similar violence this time around.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#119

Post by true_religion »

sliverstorm wrote: post #101
mbateman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there have been many articles and letters written against this law by Arizona police officers and their representatives. I don't understand why one would target the Arizona police of all people. Probably not worth analyzing LulzSec too deeply, though, there aren't any real answers or justifications besides maybe psychological ones.

There is an automatic hatred of the police shared by just about every lawbreaker. Just or not, I believe they basically see the police as their enemy, not the state.

Lawbreakers feel that they are in a war against the state and the police are the soldiers of the state.

In this case, they feel justified to 'shoot' the enemy soldiers even if they didn't individually start the war.

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