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SolarBatteryBitcoin

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Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#191

Post by thinkmassive »

bottled_poe wrote: post #136
thinkmassive wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some situations where mining Bitcoin is a very good application of energy that will otherwise be wasted. Here are two that come to mind: 1. Flared gas from oil wells. Natural gas is a byproduct of extracting oil from the Earth. In the past this was vented straight to the atmosphere, which is a huge waste of energy and causes horrible air pollution. Capturing this gas isn’t useful for many applications becau…

I don’t mean to direct this at you individually (the sentiment is throughout these threads) - I can’t help but despair when a community of engineers lack the ability to come up with creative solutions for using surplus energy. There is always a better use of those energy sources than Bitcoin mining. Some ideas: Extracting co2 from air, electrolysis, desalination, etc.

As an engineer I find both ideas very innovative.

Nobody is desalinating their own water at home using waste heat. Oil wells are often located in an area where it would make no sense to transport a bunch of water to desalinate (perhaps that's a good idea for sea-based wells though).

I don't know enough about co2 extraction or electrolysis, only that those also don't sound like things people are likely to do at home.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#192

Post by jude- »

mrow84 wrote: post #74
jude- wrote: post #10

This really is the right idea. Making it profitable for PoW to consume excess solar energy has the downstream effect of spinning up more demand for solar energy in general. You can hate Bitcoin and PoW all you want, but the genie is already out of the bottle. Even if you banned mining rigs (good luck with that), people would just mine it at home on their spare computers or use botnets. Either way, the only way we'll…

Doesn't this line of thinking incentivise any form of energy production that is above breakeven at whatever the current return on mining is? If so, then as the price of bitcoin goes up, increasing the returns to mining, we would expect to see people generating energy for mining in whatever ways they can, with no view to green credentials. It seems exciting because it could incentivise some beneficial behaviour given…

I didn't mean to suggest that PoW is sufficient to drive 100% green energy adoption. Your point about it driving any/all energy consumption is well taken. You'd need to have regulations that prohibit using non-green energy, but my point there was you'd need these regulations anyway even if Bitcoin was never invented.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#193

Post by chriswarbo »

thebean11 wrote: post #181
chriswarbo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the incentive is hashrate, and each generation of hardware is more efficient in terms of hashrate per joule That only affects who finds the next block. It will always take about 10 minutes, regardless of hashrate, energy usage, hardware efficiency, number of miners, etc. since the difficulty is adjusted to factor all of those out. For anyone who isn't a miner (and doesn't care to become one), the only variables whi…

We might be talking past each other, the point I was disputing is that miners are incentivized to expend energy, which is not true. They are incentivized to produce hashes. If you hold the hardware constant then hashrate correlates to energy usage obviously, but it's not quite the same thing.

Arguably. Hashrate was chosen as a proxy for compute power (which was chosen as a proxy for time). Compute power (or hashing power, now we have ASICs) is effectively a measure of energy, since the hardware cost gets amortised.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#194

Post by CynicusRex »

jude- wrote: post #10

This really is the right idea. Making it profitable for PoW to consume excess solar energy has the downstream effect of spinning up more demand for solar energy in general. You can hate Bitcoin and PoW all you want, but the genie is already out of the bottle. Even if you banned mining rigs (good luck with that), people would just mine it at home on their spare computers or use botnets. Either way, the only way we'll…

Cancer is still cancer whether you're eating oatmeal or candy all day. Either way, nobody wants cancer except for those who mistake an all-consuming greed inducing thing as a benign superpower.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#195

Post by lxgr »

thebean11 wrote: post #181
chriswarbo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the incentive is hashrate, and each generation of hardware is more efficient in terms of hashrate per joule That only affects who finds the next block. It will always take about 10 minutes, regardless of hashrate, energy usage, hardware efficiency, number of miners, etc. since the difficulty is adjusted to factor all of those out. For anyone who isn't a miner (and doesn't care to become one), the only variables whi…

We might be talking past each other, the point I was disputing is that miners are incentivized to expend energy, which is not true. They are incentivized to produce hashes. If you hold the hardware constant then hashrate correlates to energy usage obviously, but it's not quite the same thing.

It does lead to the same thing though if you think it through: There's always a constant number of transaction space available in a 10 minute window, which is auctioned off to Bitcoin users and yields a certain sum of unclaimed mining fees. This sum is importantly unrelated to either the current hashrate or the energy efficienc in standing up that hashrate.

As long as the total hashrate is "cheaper" than that, in terms of hardware and electricity costs, there is an economic incentive for somebody to start mining (more) – so somebody will.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#196

Post by CynicusRex »

zoshi wrote: post #15

The incessant snide comments expressing nothing but dislike for Bitcoin really don’t belong on HN. Not liking Bitcoin is fine, but if you don’t have anything to add just don’t comment. Every thread about Bitcoin on HN does not a dozen comments that it’s a waste of time and energy.

> dozen comments that it’s a waste of time and energy.

Ironic isn't it, since the topic is bitcon.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#197

Post by CynicusRex »

_9omd wrote: post #28
zoshi wrote: post #15

The incessant snide comments expressing nothing but dislike for Bitcoin really don’t belong on HN. Not liking Bitcoin is fine, but if you don’t have anything to add just don’t comment. Every thread about Bitcoin on HN does not a dozen comments that it’s a waste of time and energy.

It's really pretty ridiculous and frustrating. I come here for intelligent discussion, and I agree it's okay if people don't like Bitcoin, but at least take some time to learn about it if you're going to argue. It's straight up denial at this point, because Bitcoin, Ethereum, and DeFi are securing and transacting billions of dollars every single day. It's not a question of if it works at this point, it does work! An…

>I come here for intelligent discussion

“How corrupt and two-faced is one who claims, 'I intend to be fair and honest in my dealings with you.' What are you up to, my friend? There is really no need for this preamble. The matter will soon become plain. It should be written on your face, it should ring out immediately in your voice, and shine out at once in your eyes, as the loved one at once knows everything about his lovers from the manner of their glance. In short, a good and honest person should resemble one who smells like a goat in this respect, that anyone who comes near him is immediately aware of it whether he wishes it or not. But the mere pretence of simplicity is like an open blade. There is nothing more odious than the friendship of the wolf for the lamb; avoid this above all. A good, straightforward, and kindly person reveals these qualities in his eyes, and they will not escape you.” —Marcus Aurelius

>snide comments expressing nothing but dislike

That's because people who know a thing or two about economics ánd computer science know that all you're doing is pumping your bags. The only thing bitcon incentivizes is greed, making the rich even richer. Crypto“currencies” are pyramid slash Ponzi schemes hiding behind a veneer of sophistication. https://cynicusrex.com/file/cryptocultscience.html.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#198

Post by gamblor956 »

merpnderp wrote: post #145
Hermio wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To trust whom instead? How would a world, realisticly speaking, look like if we ever reach a dystopian level where we all stop using the currencies of our own countries? Srsly, if i stop trusting in the Euro, i can't imagine how our whole economy has to look like. I think we might have a lot of bigger issues at this point in time as bitcoin and probably not enough resources anymore to run bitcoin.

Your "dystopian" world was the status quo for thousands of years as people used gold. You don't have to imagine how the economy would look, you could just pick up a history book.

Gold was not a universal currency, and it wasn't a currency in common use.

You could pick up a history book, and you would learn that gold was almost never used as currency because it was simply too rare, and too valuable for the amounts traded in normal commerce.

Rather, silver was the currency of choice in Europe and most of Asia, with lower-value denominations eventually showing up as coins made of less valuable metals.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#199

Post by capsulecorp »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #126
capsulecorp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not.

My apologies, didn’t realize you were a bcasher. I’m sorry for your loss.

No worries, don't know what your talking about, but the loss is yours buddy, sorry to pop your crypto kiddie bubble.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#200

Post by [deleted] »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #130
Hermio wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is our problem? The problem is creating/producing co2 is a problem for our planet. Can we agree on this? If we agree on the co2 production problem, lets take a look at what bitcoin is doing: It converts a lot of energy/resources of our planet into co2. It does that by the asic's someone has to create, and by far the direct energy consumption. What does bitcoin produce? It produces transaction security right? 1.…

I know you don’t believe it has any value; my belief is it is the most valuable thing on earth, more valuable than gold, platinum and love. I believe this as passionately as you are choosing to ignore it. Your wall of text has many misconceptions and misunderstandings about how things actually work. I implore you to let your partially formed ideas go and read some more about what is really going on here. Why do you t…

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