Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

innocenceproject.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 149 posts

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#131

Post by [deleted] »

jacobolus wrote: post #74
plank_time wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who works for ICE. She has literally deported assassins for the Mexican cartels. She said the hardest part of her job is that cities like San Francisco give millions of dollars to activist lawyers to help keep these criminals in the US. The activist lawyers and even SF know that these are real criminals but they don’t care. That money could be going to help the cases of real illegal immigrants who are…

The ICE of the past few years is one of the cruelest and most out-of-control institutions in the USA which has regularly operated like a fascist secret police agency. Maybe your friend should try to exert some internal pressure to cut back on the institutional depravity, lawbreaking, coverups, and stream of lies, so that ICE can fix its ruined reputation and start building a bit of trust and support from the society.

[deleted]

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#132

Post by codezero »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #125
codezero wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused. Bernie Madoff died in prison. Can you clarify your comment? How is it relevant to this thread? His punishment, compared to the economic and personal impact of his crimes was very light in general terms. Try again.

> Try again. This level of smugness is almost never the right response here.

I agree, thanks for calling me out.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#133

Post by MomoXenosaga »

jmcgough wrote: post #88
plank_time wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny how these inconvenient facts are never brought up. Thank you for this, it’s pretty eye opening.

As someone who listens to true crime podcasts, there are loads of people who brag to their friends about committing a crime they didn't do.

People literally confess crimes during interrogation that they didn't do. I know of a case we're they worked on someone for 15 hours straight and the poor sod just confessed because he wanted it to be over. Not everyone is a trained spy or psychopath.

A confession should never be the sole evidence of convicting anyone.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#134

Post by MomoXenosaga »

fortran77 wrote: post #17
credit_guy wrote: post #16

Ms Haddaway made a secret deal with the prosecutors and the prosecutors did not reveal this. But did she lie? What this article forgets to mention is that Ms Haddaway wore a wire and got Jonathan Smith on tape that he committed the murder in order to get $60000 [1]. Here's part of the dialog for reader's convenience: "[BH:]Why were you in that field with blood all over ya? And they take, I seen ya goin’up the road th…

I suspect at least half the people exonerated by the Innocence Project are in fact guilty. However, I think that sloppy police work should never be rewarded with a guilty verdict, even if it's likely the defendant is guilty.

"Beyond a reasonable doubt"

The defendant doesn't have to prove his innocence the DA has to prove his guilt. I hope you never do jury duty.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#135

Post by TheCoelacanth »

spoonjim wrote: post #66
pjc50 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one of these "assassins" has an actual conviction in the US before they were deported, I'm sure you can name one and find some proof of this, otherwise it's just accusing people without evidence. ICE have no right to declare someone an assassin.

Yes, that’s the difference between an assassin and an “assassin.” With no conviction, a guy could be Mr. Rogers on paper — still doesn’t change the fact that he’s killed 20 people.

The only difference between an "assassin" and the actual Mr. Rogers is the word of the gestapo-lite thugs in ICE.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#136

Post by credit_guy »

bb88 wrote: post #75
credit_guy wrote: post #16

Ms Haddaway made a secret deal with the prosecutors and the prosecutors did not reveal this. But did she lie? What this article forgets to mention is that Ms Haddaway wore a wire and got Jonathan Smith on tape that he committed the murder in order to get $60000 [1]. Here's part of the dialog for reader's convenience: "[BH:]Why were you in that field with blood all over ya? And they take, I seen ya goin’up the road th…

I think you should actually read the unanimous opinion by the Maryland Court of Appeals before sleazifying the work of the innocence project so vilely: https://law.justia.com/cases/maryland/court-of-appeals/2020/... In its analysis of the palmprint evidence, the circuit court lost sight of the forest for the trees. The points of overriding importance are: (1) Ty Brooks burglarized Ms. Wilford’s house in break-in that…

Thanks for the link.

Just to make a grand summary for everyone:

* writ of innocence does not mean the court of appeals deems someone innocent. It means it finds that in light of the new evidence a retrial is warranted, and the accused enjoys the benefit of doubt once again (therefore he's "innocent until proven guilty"). It is certainly not an exoneration

* both David Faulkner and Jonathan Smith were granted the writ of innocence

* the prosecutors decided to not pursue David Faulkner anymore (either they think he's innocent, or they think he served enough time, or they think they don't have enough evidence to prove him guilty beyond any reasonable doubt)

* the prosecutors decided to try Jonathan Smith in July [1]. A judge decided to deny him bond until that time and to be under house arrest. The judge was obviously aware of the writ of innocence, and found the weight of evidence sufficient to not grant him bail.

* Finally, Jonathan Smith entered an Alford Plea [2], which is a type of no-contest plea. With this plea, the state let him go free. This type of plea does not imply the defendant is guilty, but does not imply that he's innocent either.

*crucially, the Alford plea does not imply prosecutorial misconduct.

Now, if I was "sleazyfing" the work of the Innocence Project, what did they do in regards to the work of the prosecutors? Is there any way to read their article without inferring massive prosecutorial misconduct?

[1] https://www.stardem.com/emergency_notice/jonathan-smith-deni...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alford_plea

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#137

Post by pstuart »

publicola1990 wrote: post #31
pstuart wrote: post #2

Prosecutorial misconduct like that should be punished severely -- there needs to be accountability for destroying other people's lives.

Rather better than that, can the government be sued for damages for wrongful imprisonment?

That doesn't address the aspect of "skin in the game". If the government pays out over your misconduct, why should you care?

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#138

Post by Viliam1234 »

gentleman11 wrote: post #13
spiritplumber wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prosecutorial misconduct like that should be punished by garnishing the perp's wages to help pay for the giant wad of cash that the state must hand over to the victim in abject apology.

The prosecution should have to serve the same time their victim did

They should be charged with kidnapping the victim, as a part of an organized group.

The laws already exists, we only need to start applying them consistently to all kinds of criminals.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#139

Post by zo1 »

mikeyouse wrote: post #54
plank_time wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who works for ICE. She has literally deported assassins for the Mexican cartels. She said the hardest part of her job is that cities like San Francisco give millions of dollars to activist lawyers to help keep these criminals in the US. The activist lawyers and even SF know that these are real criminals but they don’t care. That money could be going to help the cases of real illegal immigrants who are…

Yeah that damn due process. Always getting in the way of extrajudicial punishment.

Yeah, and that damn visa application process! Always getting in the way of crossing the border.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#140

Post by zo1 »

haram_masala wrote: post #63
kmeisthax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't. What they do want is for immigrants to not fear deportation, so they want to make a stand that they'll fight immigration enforcement every step of the way. Hence why they'll get involved with these kinds of lawsuits. Even if ICE purely deported only people who committed crimes other than illegal entry or overstaying a visa; you'd still have plenty of immigrants afraid of all law enforcement. Yes, even the…

If someone is legally in the US, why would they fear having their life uprooted by having to show their papers?

My opinionated and probably-biased answer to your question:

1. Due to their being no real central database, it's hard for physical persons in the US to prove their identity and consequently their citizenship status.

2. There are a lot of illegal immigrants in the US.

3. There are a lot of illegal immigrants in the US that have lived here for a long time so the "legality" of their status is muddied. This then makes the whole debate around this more about "what is right" and the emotions involved, instead of what the laws say.

Post reply on HN