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How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

germantechjobs.de

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Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#221

Post by ramraj07 »

maccard wrote: post #178
FalconSensei wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem with your comparison (and I'm not saying devs don't make less money in EU) is that you can't just convert one currency to the other. You have to compare purchasing power and quality of life. The same salary in US could be viewed as 'you are rich' or 'you can't pay rent' depending on with city you live in. Now, you are talking about different continents. I would compare the possible lifestyles and qua…

I've made this point many many times on this site, but if you make 150k in san Francisco, and pay 4k a month on rent, you have more left over after rent and tax than a mid level developer in europe makes as a gross salary.

But the avocado toast ain’t cheap either! Neither is your Soulcycle class! People seem to find a way to spend their money one way or another anyway! But if you save the money, sure. However if you still buy the house in SF with that savings you tend to again lose all benefit. Thus the only way to do this correctly is make a lot of money in Sf for a decade, save most of it, move to some European country and don’t earn at all (this no tax).

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#222

Post by shellfishgene »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #218
comodore_ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a total of about 50% in social security contributions AND taxes. Assuming you are single and have no kids and your gross salary is 100k, you pay about 15k in social security contributions and 29k in income tax. And additionally 2.5k in church tax if you're catholic or lutheran.

> And additionally 2.5k in church tax if you're catholic or lutheran. Woah, what? How does that work and why?

Well, we don't take separation of church and state as seriously as we should. The state collects the taxes for the churches, it's around 9% of your income tax. This happens automatically if you're baptized, and you have to leave the church if you don't want to pay this, which also happens at a government office.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#223

Post by checkyoursudo »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #218
comodore_ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a total of about 50% in social security contributions AND taxes. Assuming you are single and have no kids and your gross salary is 100k, you pay about 15k in social security contributions and 29k in income tax. And additionally 2.5k in church tax if you're catholic or lutheran.

> And additionally 2.5k in church tax if you're catholic or lutheran. Woah, what? How does that work and why?

All your questions mostly answered, my unknown internet friend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#224

Post by DavidVoid »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #140

Any time these guides come up they are simply shocking. I love Europe, I grew up there. I don't understand why anyone would stay as a developer in the EU. Software is simply not valued. Dev salaries are astounding. Senior engineers in the EU make less than entry level undergrads in the US or Canada. 60k Euros is 70k USD. People out of bootcamps with zero experience make more than that in the US. I don't have a single…

Compared to most jobs, developers are still pretty valued. I'm a junior software engineer in Sweden with an MSE degree. My entry salary was a bit lower than average for this industry at $50,000/year ($3000/month after taxes), but that's still higher than what 95% of nurses make in this country.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#225

Post by geraneum »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #218
comodore_ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a total of about 50% in social security contributions AND taxes. Assuming you are single and have no kids and your gross salary is 100k, you pay about 15k in social security contributions and 29k in income tax. And additionally 2.5k in church tax if you're catholic or lutheran.

> And additionally 2.5k in church tax if you're catholic or lutheran. Woah, what? How does that work and why?

As a Blue Card holder, upon registration in town hall, they ask about your religion and if you don’t want to pay church tax, you have to say you have no religions. Germans also can get out of the church “in an official sense” and stop paying that tax.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#226

Post by mkipper »

lacker wrote: post #154
wasmitnetzen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also get (probably) 30 days of paid vacation a year and up to 6 weeks of sick pay paid by the employer (and after that by your health insurance). You can't just compare the raw numbers to get a full picture.

I mean it's just so far off. Check levels.fyi, Google/Airbnb/Coinbase will be paying $300k+ for software engineers with 4+ years of experience.

Those salaries are also:

1. Unprecedented for "average" engineers (i.e. not leading their field) until very recently

2. Offered by extremely profitable big tech companies or less profitable companies with giant pools of funding

3. Offered by companies that highly value software engineers

4. Offered in extremely competitive markets

The vast majority of employers in Germany, and in most of the world, don't meet those criteria. It's unreasonable to compare the average German tech company to the best paying American tech companies.

Compared to the best paying software jobs on earth, German tech pays pretty badly. But so do most companies. I used to live in a city with a population of ~1 million, and most local "tech" companies paid new grads $60k - $80k, with senior developers landing between $100k and $150k. That's much closer to Germany pay than Silicon Valley pay.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#227

Post by nickkell »

koevet wrote: post #186
sdevonoes wrote: post #8

> To sum up: if you are single and opt for "live cool and don't care about expenses" style, then an average developer salary will be enough (it might be harder if you have a family to feed). > On the other hand, if you choose to go the student-like route (living in Wohngemeinschaft and not eating out too much), you can easily manage with just 1.200-1.500 EUR per month, and save the majority of your salary. I know it…

And let's not forget that in Germany, one has to add around 15% on top of the house price: taxes, notary and - almost always - the real estate agent cut.

That real estate agent fee is sickening. It's shocking that they can charge a percentage of the value of the property. With ever-rising house prices they're earning more and more without doing any additional work.

This money also has to be paid upfront, and so is yet another hindrance for young, first-time buyers.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#228

Post by distances »

kazen44 wrote: post #193
distances wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All skilled professions have lower pay in Europe, there isn't a "get rich" path. Doctors usually earn more but nowhere near US levels. For me, I can say I didn't consider salary when choosing my field. It's just not a common concern, you're expected to study something you're good at and would enjoy doing. Medical and law were definitely not even remote thoughts for me. It was a happy accident that software engineers…

Also, it is not just about me being able to afford a proper lifestyle. I want the people with less paying jobs which are still considered vital (caretakers for instance) to also have a nice life without too much worry or abhorrent poverty. The US is very individualistic in comparison, and in my opinion it is not doing well in this regard. Things like crime, violence etc all increase when people are pushed into povert…

Well said. Obviously I wouldn't mind earning more, it goes without saying. But I do appreciate the fact that my siblings, nieces and nephews can have a humane life at whatever their profession is, and can study to their full potential regardless of their parents' income. And that my parents and grandparents can have a dignified life at old age, with proper care and without fear of ending destitute.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#229

Post by jakub_g »

cyminum wrote: post #196
jakub_g wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) In Europe you don't get unexpected medical bills for tens/hundreds thousands of dollars when you have some medical issue. 2) Your kids won't get shot in the school. 3) You don't have to drive 20 minutes to the closest store to buy bread and milk. 4) I have 35d of paid vacation, while AFAICT in US you're lucky if you get 20. I'd get a brain melt or die from overworking if I had any less vacation days than now. I've…

1) That almost certainly will not happen with the health insurance as a software engineer. 2) An average of three children die per year in school shootings, giving odds of roughly 1 in 800,000 (hard to tell with such tiny sample sizes). Your child is more likely to be struck by lightning and far more likely to die in a fire or car accident. ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/11/lockdown-... 3) That is…

I exaggerated in my post, but the general difference is: in US to access high paying jobs, you can either live in city centres where rent is sky high, or suburbs which are very car-centric. This is not compelling to many Europeans. I might not be earning six-digit salary, but I don't share a room with 3 people and don't live in a van (this is probably grotesque but there were many stories like that on HN alone).

About the shootings, yes, media coverage is skewing things a lot. I live in France and my friends abroad think there's an islamic terrorist attack happening here every week.

Anyway, the US society feels way more class-divided. Even if as an employee of FAANG I would get a good health insurance, the way the system works overall for average folk just doesn't make me feel like living in such a system. (What if I lose a job for whatever reason? No fancy insurance anymore!). And as someone with a "preexisting condition" I'm actually not sure how my case would be treated in case I wanted to apply for a visa.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#230

Post by light_hue_1 »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #188
FalconSensei wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem with your comparison (and I'm not saying devs don't make less money in EU) is that you can't just convert one currency to the other. You have to compare purchasing power and quality of life. The same salary in US could be viewed as 'you are rich' or 'you can't pay rent' depending on with city you live in. Now, you are talking about different continents. I would compare the possible lifestyles and qua…

> The same salary in US could be viewed as 'you are rich' or 'you can't pay rent' depending on with city you live in. Now, you are talking about different continents. "You can't make rent"/"You can't buy a house with a reasonable commute" an a software dev salary is almost entirely a California and NYC-area phenomenon. A "typical" software developer (even a junior) could afford a decent house within a reasonable comm…

This is spot on. We made exactly the same calculation and you make more money, have better healthcare, can buy a better house, and save far more money in the US than in the EU as a developer.

Yeah, you have to buy the perks that are free (because your taxes go toward useful things) in the EU, but you make so much more money, that buying them is easy.

The US is a really strange place. It's far worse for 90% of people than the EU, but for the top 5% or so, it's unimaginably better.

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