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Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

arstechnica.com

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Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#151

Post by UncleOxidant »

apercu wrote: post #139
KingOfCoders wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trumps brand is still strong it seems (or at least Republicans think so) and it added to his brand - I do think the most important thing to Trump is branding, being president is secondary. Or the other way around: Being president added to the brand, that's what Trump was interested in* He doesn't care he lost the presidency in principle, but because losing tarnishes the brand. He would be the same losing the presiden…

"Trumps brand is still strong it seems (or at least Republicans think so)" Jeez. In all of my marketing efforts I would never immediately out of the gate alienate 60-65% of my potential customer base. And the Trump brand did nearly that from day 1.

Sure, but he's got an extremely loyal 40%. Of course, most of that demographic aren't the folks that can afford a night in a Trump hotel or to buy a membership at one of his golf clubs.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#152

Post by skinnymuch »

waterheater wrote: post #71
ThaDood wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be a naysayer, but do you have any sort of evidence to substantiate this claim? Any evidence of exceptions to laws regarding the usage of the watershed and lake with specific regards to Foxconn? Or any kind of indication that a bottling facility will be built up?

Hard evidence? No. The exact plot of land they chose is not particularly remarkable, so I must wonder why they chose a piece of land straddling the watershed, given that the Compact [1] indirectly applies to corporations. There's a deeper political aspect to Foxconn's presence that I can't trust. I'm from Wisconsin, and the whole Foxconn deal leaves me feeling extremely uneasy. Leaving aside the Wisconsin and USA pol…

Foxconn is Taiwanese. Wouldn’t Foxconn affiliated people naturally have involvement with Taiwan? Taiwan is our ally. Forget the Middle East for a second. If China was to take TSMC’s factories over. It would be world war 3 most likely.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#153

Post by UncleOxidant »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #131
matwood wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're downvoted because this is what Trump has done through most of his life. While POTUS, his healthcare plan was 2 weeks away, his infrastructure plan was 2 weeks away, the wall - I guess a few feet were built. Great at marketing, terrible at execution.

I am sure down votes are because he still has supporters here on HN. But even still, there's nothing that's been said that wasn't true.

> he still has supporters here on HN.

Which I always find a bit surprising because you'd think people here would be able to see through the hucksterism.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#154

Post by anonAndOn »

katbyte wrote: post #137
silexia wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brilliant comment, I think we are going to see this in the future too with Trump. He has gone quiet for now, but he's going to come back and make far more money than he was making prior to the presidency.

Provided none of the court cases he is currently involved in send him to jail or bankrupt him?

> bankrupt him

...for the 7th time?

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#155

Post by mbg721 »

jacobolus wrote: post #147
api wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. People like Trump have careers that resemble repeatedly pumped-and-dumped penny stocks. They rise and fall, rise and fall, rise and fall. Basically what they do is build themselves up through something like a social capital pyramid scheme. This eventually collapses when there are no greater fools and when all their promises fail, but the good ones already have the next grift in progress before the first one…

Trump is a true grifter prodigy, who has managed to “fail” hundreds of times – while skimming billions of dollars away from investors, business partners, lenders, suppliers, employees, and customers – often in full public view, and both skate away from criminal liability and still keep finding more marks, ultimately including something like 40% of the general public.

That may be true, but the last piece is genuinely different. If he was a fraud as a candidate, then he was a fraud in a situation where there was no legitimate substitute. Few voters have changed their minds; the aftermath of 2020 has been a digging-in of heels in a culture-war, not a "We've been had!" moment.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#156

Post by eigen »

refurb wrote: post #87
danhak wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not really “giving up” anything if they attract a business that otherwise wouldn’t be there at all. It’s still a net gain to have a major employer in your locale, along with all the other economic benefits and tax revenue that entails.

Exactly. People this it’s a choice between: A) company moves here pays $0 in tax or B) company moves here and pays $5M in tax. When in reality it’s a choice between: A) company comes here and pays $0 in tax or B) company doesn’t come here and net taxes are still $0

According to [1], its:

A) company comes here and pays $0 in tax. and city "took on hundreds of millions in debt that was supposed to be repaid by property taxes".

B) company doesn’t come here and net taxes are still $0. city doesnt take on more debt.

B looks better.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/21507966/foxconn-empty-factories-wi...

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#157

Post by r00fus »

data_spy wrote: post #146
r00fus wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just call it what is is: corruption. Corruption isn't just something that happens in 3rd world countries. Alive and well in the US of A.

In this case, it was actually a Governor who didn't know math more so than corruption. At least for the original terms in 2017.

Do you actually believe that? Gov. Walker was notorious for various other corrupt activities as well.

In other terms, grey's law applies here: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#158

Post by evgen »

stevehawk wrote: post #128
danhak wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not really “giving up” anything if they attract a business that otherwise wouldn’t be there at all. It’s still a net gain to have a major employer in your locale, along with all the other economic benefits and tax revenue that entails.

I don't understand why people keep downvoting this sentiment. Cities have two options: (1) Attract a business that wouldn't otherwise come, which when it exists will attract more people that pay state/local sales taxes and increase demand for property, which in turn increases property price, which increases property taxes. (2) Don't attract the business. . . .. nothing comes after that.

And once again the law of the excluded middle strikes. No, the only two options are not the ones you suggest. The other option, that you conveniently ignore, is that cities build a good infrastructure that attracts talent and the businesses come to either serve the talent or employ the talent -- no subsidy needed.

By now there must be entire libraries, or at least large warehouses, filled with case studies from HBS and similar schools that show state and municipal tax incentives are ALWAYS a bad deal for the city and state finances. The only purpose they serve is to make a politician appear effective and to enable that politician and his or her cronies to collect a bit of graft.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#159

Post by api »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #153
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure down votes are because he still has supporters here on HN. But even still, there's nothing that's been said that wasn't true.

> he still has supporters here on HN. Which I always find a bit surprising because you'd think people here would be able to see through the hucksterism.

I have a speculation that some fraction of the tech-libertarian crowd likes him precisely because he was a dumpster fire. He helps discredit the state. Keep electing candidates of that quality and seasteading schemes start looking attractive.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#160

Post by jrumbut »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #150
jrumbut wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true but it just describes why jurisdictions are willing to join the race to the bottom.

But “the bottom” is not really a bottom then. It is like a joint private/public venture. What is wrong with that?

It's not really a problem for the partners in the joint private/public venture. It is a problem for the next jurisdiction that is now facing companies' expectations of massive incentives, for the existing residents and businesses that are paying normal taxes because they aren't new, for any but the largest businesses who don't have lobbyists on staff, etc.

There's also the general wisdom that life is better when you're competing to offer more value for more money, not just cutting costs as far as you can

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