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Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

arstechnica.com

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Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#141

Post by fatbird »

josefdlange wrote: post #111
kimar wrote: post #33

There's a great Reply All podcast about local politics in the town where this plant is to be built. Beware, it's slightly infuriating. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/wbhjwd

I grew up in Racine County (which contains Mount Pleasant). Let me tell you, SE WI is a strange place. Caught between so many sensibilities and hit so, so hard by economic shifts of the last two decades. I think it suffers, like many places in the American Midwest, the phenomenon of an historically working-class population, who, a few decades ago, would have organized for labor and other rights very vocally and outwa…

I lived and worked in the area for four years, working in Pleasant Prairie, living in Kenosha and then Oak Creak. Parent is right, it's a strange place because of the mixture of so many influences: the proximity of Chicago and Milwaukee, a former industrial powerhouse region, access to great education but full of people who've never been to Chicago or Milwaukee (let alone further than them).

My sysadmin had a hobby of creating frankenstein cars. He put the powertrain of a Camaro into the body of Gremlin, for which he needed a second Gremlin to lengthen the chassis by a foot. It was so overpowered he needed a couple hundred pounds of sandbags in the back to give it any traction at all. This sort of thing wasn't that weird either.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#142

Post by josefdlange »

munificent wrote: post #130
josefdlange wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Racine County (which contains Mount Pleasant). Let me tell you, SE WI is a strange place. Caught between so many sensibilities and hit so, so hard by economic shifts of the last two decades. I think it suffers, like many places in the American Midwest, the phenomenon of an historically working-class population, who, a few decades ago, would have organized for labor and other rights very vocally and outwa…

> for no understandable reason. Americans classically derive much of their sense of value from: 1. Work 2. Race (for many white people, especially historically) ...and that's about it. Unlike other cultures our "rugged individualism" means that we don't tend to derive as much sense of worth from family, traditions, organizations we belong to, etc. This is especially true for men who are raised to believe that who the…

Hard to process this kind of cynicism, accurate though it is. Not your demeanor, by the way, friend, just the reality of it all. Ironic that I speak of willful ignorance and yet am happy to not think too hard about the very things you've called out here.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#143

Post by blueblob »

altacc wrote: post #81
billyhoffman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it? His “8th wonder of the world nonsense” was after he was elected in 2017, and Trump then lost Wisconsin in 2020

You probably need to consider the wider impact, not just Wisconsin. This was national news (I'm international and I remember reading about it) and would have contributed to his supporters general perception that he was delivering on promises. This isn't really an area where we can single Trump out as he was just being a normal politician here. It's common to announce an amazing deal with a big fanfare which then eith…

It's either a lot less common than you're making it out to be or it should not have made international news. Anyone who followed this story from the beginning realized it was not a good deal for Wisconsinites.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#144

Post by sbierwagen »

KZZ wrote: post #82
jcranmer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I can tell, Foxconn never actually intended to build the plant. (I'm getting a lot of this from an interesting long-form article on the history of this deal; unfortunately, I don't remember where I found this article, sorry). Essentially, Foxconn thought that the Wisconsin deal would work more typically as its deals in China went. Glad-hand the government officials, get sweetheart deals on land and investme…

For information, the plant has been built. The building is there, just empty.

The machines inside a LCD factory are dramatically more expensive than the building itself. The "plant" has not been built in any meaningful way.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#145

Post by zbrozek »

kickout wrote: post #96
bryanlarsen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but water is set to be more valuable than oil Desalination costs less than 0.1 cents per liter, so that sets a pretty firm price cap on the cost of water.

Not arguing at all--- you got a link for those costs? I always thought desalination was cost prohibitive. I'd be thrilled to know it was 0.1 cents per liter (seriously)!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Costs

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#146

Post by data_spy »

r00fus wrote: post #136
altendo wrote: post #61

I am always struck at the amount that states and municipalities are willing to write off in order to attract companies. On one hand, I understand that companies want to take the best deal, but on the other hand, at times local governments are willing to give up so much money in tax revenue. I remember reading about the competitions for Google Fiber and Amazon's second HQ - it felt absurd the amount cities and states…

Let's just call it what is is: corruption. Corruption isn't just something that happens in 3rd world countries. Alive and well in the US of A.

In this case, it was actually a Governor who didn't know math more so than corruption. At least for the original terms in 2017.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#147

Post by jacobolus »

api wrote: post #50
billyhoffman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it? His “8th wonder of the world nonsense” was after he was elected in 2017, and Trump then lost Wisconsin in 2020

Exactly. People like Trump have careers that resemble repeatedly pumped-and-dumped penny stocks. They rise and fall, rise and fall, rise and fall. Basically what they do is build themselves up through something like a social capital pyramid scheme. This eventually collapses when there are no greater fools and when all their promises fail, but the good ones already have the next grift in progress before the first one…

Trump is a true grifter prodigy, who has managed to “fail” hundreds of times – while skimming billions of dollars away from investors, business partners, lenders, suppliers, employees, and customers – often in full public view, and both skate away from criminal liability and still keep finding more marks, ultimately including something like 40% of the general public.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#148

Post by UncleOxidant »

katbyte wrote: post #137
silexia wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brilliant comment, I think we are going to see this in the future too with Trump. He has gone quiet for now, but he's going to come back and make far more money than he was making prior to the presidency.

Provided none of the court cases he is currently involved in send him to jail or bankrupt him?

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for him to be imprisoned. But I do think he's going to be spending a lot of time in courtrooms for the rest of his life and that's at least some consolation.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#149

Post by skinnymuch »

justaman wrote: post #123
josefdlange wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Racine County (which contains Mount Pleasant). Let me tell you, SE WI is a strange place. Caught between so many sensibilities and hit so, so hard by economic shifts of the last two decades. I think it suffers, like many places in the American Midwest, the phenomenon of an historically working-class population, who, a few decades ago, would have organized for labor and other rights very vocally and outwa…

You claim to not understand how that group of people can swing right and then proceed to attribute ignorance to that group of people. This doesn't compute. Very partisan and ignorant of you.

Why is it partisan? Let’s pretend OP said “swing left”. Being against the left isn’t how partisan is normally defined. It’s usually the bias of being for a specific cause/political party. What would be the cause here? Not being pro American politics left? That does not give much info about what causes the person is biased for.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#150

Post by AzzieElbab »

jrumbut wrote: post #134
j_walter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get taxes in other ways through new building permits, higher property taxes, local sales tax, etc...there is more going on than just collecting corporate taxes in a municipality. The more people you draw the better your overall tax revenue is...and the taxes you are willing to put off are limited in time and generally expire after 5-10 years.

This is all true but it just describes why jurisdictions are willing to join the race to the bottom.

But “the bottom” is not really a bottom then. It is like a joint private/public venture. What is wrong with that?
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