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SolarBatteryBitcoin

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181–190 of 214 posts

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the amount of energy "wasted" is not measured, the incentive is hashrate, and each generation of hardware is more efficient in terms of hashrate per joule.

> the incentive is hashrate, and each generation of hardware is more efficient in terms of hashrate per joule That only affects who finds the next block. It will always take about 10 minutes, regardless of hashrate, energy usage, hardware efficiency, number of miners, etc. since the difficulty is adjusted to factor all of those out. For anyone who isn't a miner (and doesn't care to become one), the only variables whi…

We might be talking past each other, the point I was disputing is that miners are incentivized to expend energy, which is not true. They are incentivized to produce hashes.

If you hold the hardware constant then hashrate correlates to energy usage obviously, but it's not quite the same thing.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#182
post #172
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems with water desalination and hydrogen production is that if you dont run at a somewhat constant volume you likely aren't at the financial optimum. You can do maintenance and stuff when the energy price is high but turning everything off is just likely not financially sustainable. The energy cost is just one factor. If the plant does not use any energy it still has plenty other running cost that wont stop.…

Desal plants need to run constantly anyway, at least in my understanding. Desalination plants aren't really something you build for profit, they're to secure your cities clean water supply and are usually taxpayer funded infrastructure projects.

if you have some reservoir that you can top up, that's a great buffer. Pumping drinking water into the sea because your reservoir is full is not a thing as far as I know. So that implies they either don't produce enough; or they vary production as needed.

A realistic/feasible deployment would perhaps pair desalination with solar or wind (more likely on the coast). During electricity peak hours, it might be more lucrative to sell electricity to the grid and then the rest of the time top up the reservoir. I guess depending on how scarce water is, the $ per kwh earned via water might actually be larger than selling to the grid. But you get my point.

You are right that these things being funded via tax payer money, makes this kind of lateral thinking less likely. But if someone were to do this commercially, this would be a great way to make it more cost effective.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#183
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will still have political parties. They will be the ones with the militaries. The endgame of HODL is a digital Fort Knox. Under the gold standard people didn’t actually exchange pieces of eight. They used paper money.

Yes, and what will they pay the soldiers? Worthless Fiat? Part of the debasement of the roman currency was to pay their armies. When you take that ability away from a state, how do you maintain them without unlimited funding? I don't know if bitcoin will end all wars, but it is far closer to a peaceful coexistence than debt-based economies.

You might manage to cause an upheaval in which who runs the state changes hands, but nothing else will change for the better.

You’ll just get a new state which holds Bitcoin and issues debt based on Bitcoin in the form of promissory notes.

It’s pretty simple - just require taxes be paid in Bitcoin and use violence against those who don’t pay. Just like with other revolutionary wars, you pay generals with land and soldiers with the new currency (I.e. Bitcoin). Some of those generals will end up as a dictator or president depending on whether you are able to establish a democracy.

The state will be the ultimate HODLer just as it was with gold.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#184
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what you have left is crypto or gold. Right. Because there are no other investments.

What other investments would you consider? To me, if there are bubbles going on, the stock market is in one as well, as is real estate, etc. I've looked at the other investments available, and they also either seem very inflated, with room to fall, or stagnant and not able to keep up with inflation. I'd prefer to hold cash in a savings account, but the rates are so low now it just doesn't make sense to hold a lot in…

Personally, I only consider equity and debt instruments. Other than that you have commodities (oil, gold, digital/crypto assets...) but commodities are basically speculative assets (from an investor's perspective). They require the ability to predict future prices with accuracy, which I don't think I possess. And if you're unable to predict future prices, the optimal portfolio to hold is one consisting of a total-market equity fund and a money market fund, in whatever proportions you prefer. This is known as the two-fund theorem. If you're interested in learning about "passive" investing, I can recommend 2 youtube channels: Ben Felix and the plain bagel.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#185
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I brought arguments. It should be easy for you to take part in this discussion by using my arguments and showing they are wrong. I have no clue why you would see my writing as 'deliberately wordy' if you could just counterargue them? I'm also not a native speaker, not sure if my style of writing is just different. "who crafts his arguments not to inform but to waste the time of people engaging him" I'm lost. You make…

Ah well, if English is not your primary language I suppose I could have been a bit harsh. I'll give one example and expand. You wrote: >No country has a benefit of allowing bitcoin. which is absurd to anyone who's heard the first argument in favour of Bitcoin. Cryptocurrency allows reliable recordkeeping of transactions without a bribe-able human in the loop. Therefore, it allows default transparency and reduces corr…

> Cryptocurrency allows reliable recordkeeping of transactions without a bribe-able human in the loop. Therefore, it allows default transparency and reduces corruption. Every government gains a benefit from allowing that.

Why would you think a cryptocurrency allows "reliable recordkeeping"? We can put anything we like in a blockchain, including fraudulent records, false provenance chains dating back however long we like, etc. There's nothing to prevent us making multiple blockchains, asserting various conflicting histories, so we can later point to whichever one we find most convenient. It's so easy to make blockchains that there have even been Web sites which will do it for us, e.g. https://web.archive.org/web/20140228160536/http://coingen.io

Perhaps that's 'cheating', and we should only talk about 'established' cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum? It's certainly much harder to spoof or duplicate their blockchains (that's their key feature, after all!); yet they're still awful for recordkeeping, since they're publically-writable and general-purpose. For example, any time a record needs to be published to the Bitcoin blockchain, there's nothing to stop us publishing multiple records, with all sorts of inconsistent contents; we can do this from multiple pseudonymous wallets, and we can even build up meta-merkle-trees between them over time, to weave a bunch of complicated, entirely-fictional narratives. Again, we can point out whichever of these we find most convenient at a later date. If these records are encrypted, then all of the 'backup' histories we created are indistinguishable from day-to-day bitcoin traffic. If the records aren't encrypted, we can blame their existence on impersonators (we can always prove the 'proper' records came from us; and nobody else can prove we also made the 'backups').

Perhaps that's 'cheating', and we need to tie all of the records to a single wallet, to avoid such 'retroactive construction'? That would require some sort of trust/consensus/distribution mechanism so all parties can verify that they'll be using the same wallet ID. Blockchains don't help us with that (the same problem would arise with that blockchain, and so on); but thankfully it's pretty easy to solve in a trustless way: we make lots of copies of the ID, spread out in multiple locations, including public archives.

However, if multiple parties are able to agree on a wallet ID, then they don't need a blockchain in the first place! The records can just be signed and appended to a merkle database, with no need for proof-of-anything. The consensus mechanism is used to agree on a public key, database location and initial hash. After that, each party is free to check at any time whether the database has been tampered with (i.e. whether their hash is still an ancestor of the latest record). They can also replace their remembered hash with the latest one at any point.

People are doing this all over the world every day. For example, that's exactly how git works (+ commit signing).

> As for Bitcoin specifically, in multi-country deals it offers a neutral currency that neither party has more control over. Among other things this allows loans to be brokered without a risk of either party manipulating the supply of currency in which the loan must be repaid. It's a huge benefit to most countries to have a tool like that available.

Lol; there's no need to manipulate the supply if we can manipulate the price. If a multi-country loan required a country to pay a certain number of bitcoins, that country would be incentivised to affect bitcoin's price by enacting laws, spreading propaganda, and generally trying to spook speculators. It's a laughably bad use-case.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#186
post #10

This really is the right idea. Making it profitable for PoW to consume excess solar energy has the downstream effect of spinning up more demand for solar energy in general. You can hate Bitcoin and PoW all you want, but the genie is already out of the bottle. Even if you banned mining rigs (good luck with that), people would just mine it at home on their spare computers or use botnets. Either way, the only way we'll…

> the only way we'll ever succeed in making PoW green is to make energy production itself green

Proof-of-work is an energy sink. Its existence is counter-productive for energy, green or not.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's is bitcoin even a hedge against the dollar when it's correlated with the U.S. stock market? So many things just don't add up, like is btc a currency or an investment? Fiat currency is really the only spendable currency.

I'm a Bitcoin fan and I actually do agree, some of the narratives conflict. From my perspective it is a new asset class and the world is still figuring out what it is. It does, so far, seem to be a risk on asset, as it didn't perform well in March 2020. It is already storing over $1 trillion of the world's wealth though, and in this case, money talks. Yes, it might have a correction, but the S&P 500 might as well. Th…

> I think, why not hold some, even just a little bit?

Because that perpetuates and inflates the Pozi scheme. Any "little bit" of positive now will be more than offset during its collapse, having a larger negative effect on more people.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#188
post #10

This really is the right idea. Making it profitable for PoW to consume excess solar energy has the downstream effect of spinning up more demand for solar energy in general. You can hate Bitcoin and PoW all you want, but the genie is already out of the bottle. Even if you banned mining rigs (good luck with that), people would just mine it at home on their spare computers or use botnets. Either way, the only way we'll…

>downstream effect of spinning up more demand for solar energy in general. But we don't just need more solar. We need less non-renewable energy to be consumed. Solar may replace it but adding tones of solar to retire polluting sources is not directly addressing the issue at stake but just want more solar.

The nice thing about having more solar capacity available is that you can direct it towards other uses if it's more profitable to do so (or if regulations are changed to require it). Neither is possible, though, if we don't build it out in the first place.

If the only good thing Bitcoin succeeds in doing is accelerating solar capacity rollout, I'd call the tech as a whole a win.

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some situations where mining Bitcoin is a very good application of energy that will otherwise be wasted. Here are two that come to mind: 1. Flared gas from oil wells. Natural gas is a byproduct of extracting oil from the Earth. In the past this was vented straight to the atmosphere, which is a huge waste of energy and causes horrible air pollution. Capturing this gas isn’t useful for many applications becau…

I have no cogent argument with your first situation (there are some subtleties there that you omit, but it's basically correct modulo other uses for the energy). The second, however, is fundamentally inaccurate: > Heat production for buildings and water. Most space and water heaters produce heat directly from their energy source (electricity or gas) without producing anything else of value. The primary byproduct of B…

Heat pumps are great! Unfortunately they can't be used everywhere. Check out the Wisemining Sato Boiler, it's an interesting way to augment an existing heater.

There's nothing that makes the idea specific to Bitcoin mining. That's just the implementation they chose for their first product. The idea is to recapture heat generated by computation and use it for another purpose.

https://www.wisemining.io/product

Re: SolarBatteryBitcoin

#190
post #10

This really is the right idea. Making it profitable for PoW to consume excess solar energy has the downstream effect of spinning up more demand for solar energy in general. You can hate Bitcoin and PoW all you want, but the genie is already out of the bottle. Even if you banned mining rigs (good luck with that), people would just mine it at home on their spare computers or use botnets. Either way, the only way we'll…

> the only way we'll ever succeed in making PoW green is to make energy production itself green Proof-of-work is an energy sink . Its existence is counter -productive for energy, green or not.

If all energy produced is green, then it doesn't matter anymore how much PoW consumes.
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