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Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

arstechnica.com

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Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#121

Post by cabotmoose »

skystarman wrote: post #85
avs733 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be research to support this argument. Has anyone found evidence for or against? Otherwise the claim here seems aspirational rather than useful. I know that the history of stadium deals, for example, this claim is nearly universally made to support incentivizing sports teams - and the evidence nearly universally shows it to be false. "In every case, the conclusions are the same. A new sports facility has…

I don't think the comparison to sports stadiums fit here. Usually there is already a stadium for a large NFL team or whatever in the city and the economies in the cities that are large enough to even host these teams are WAY more dynamic than where many factories are being built in the south or midwest. For example Walmart's HQ was built in a TINY SW Arkansas town. The billions that have been invested there by the co…

> For example Walmart's HQ was built in a TINY SW Arkansas town.

Minor correction: Walmart's HQ is in NW Arkansas (Bentonville)

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#122

Post by nindalf »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #120
altendo wrote: post #61

I am always struck at the amount that states and municipalities are willing to write off in order to attract companies. On one hand, I understand that companies want to take the best deal, but on the other hand, at times local governments are willing to give up so much money in tax revenue. I remember reading about the competitions for Google Fiber and Amazon's second HQ - it felt absurd the amount cities and states…

you cant "give up" tax revenue you haven't collected

You're right, but you can contribute to a race-to-the-bottom where no one collects any tax.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#123

Post by justaman »

josefdlange wrote: post #111
kimar wrote: post #33

There's a great Reply All podcast about local politics in the town where this plant is to be built. Beware, it's slightly infuriating. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/wbhjwd

I grew up in Racine County (which contains Mount Pleasant). Let me tell you, SE WI is a strange place. Caught between so many sensibilities and hit so, so hard by economic shifts of the last two decades. I think it suffers, like many places in the American Midwest, the phenomenon of an historically working-class population, who, a few decades ago, would have organized for labor and other rights very vocally and outwa…

You claim to not understand how that group of people can swing right and then proceed to attribute ignorance to that group of people. This doesn't compute. Very partisan and ignorant of you.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#124

Post by Solocomplex »

silexia wrote: post #110
api wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. People like Trump have careers that resemble repeatedly pumped-and-dumped penny stocks. They rise and fall, rise and fall, rise and fall. Basically what they do is build themselves up through something like a social capital pyramid scheme. This eventually collapses when there are no greater fools and when all their promises fail, but the good ones already have the next grift in progress before the first one…

Brilliant comment, I think we are going to see this in the future too with Trump. He has gone quiet for now, but he's going to come back and make far more money than he was making prior to the presidency.

And during! Which was, of course, illegal.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#126

Post by NicoJuicy »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #51
billyhoffman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it? His “8th wonder of the world nonsense” was after he was elected in 2017, and Trump then lost Wisconsin in 2020

Trumps brand is still strong it seems (or at least Republicans think so) and it added to his brand - I do think the most important thing to Trump is branding, being president is secondary. Or the other way around: Being president added to the brand, that's what Trump was interested in* He doesn't care he lost the presidency in principle, but because losing tarnishes the brand. He would be the same losing the presiden…

Trump's brand was name licensing.

You won't license a brand that already scrunes >50% of potential customers in the US is and way more in the western world ( but the contacts seem to be solid, so it's very expensive)

Look at all the hotels trying to get off the Trump brand. And all the businesses that associated themselves with Trump during his presidency.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#128

Post by stevehawk »

danhak wrote: post #64
altendo wrote: post #61

I am always struck at the amount that states and municipalities are willing to write off in order to attract companies. On one hand, I understand that companies want to take the best deal, but on the other hand, at times local governments are willing to give up so much money in tax revenue. I remember reading about the competitions for Google Fiber and Amazon's second HQ - it felt absurd the amount cities and states…

They’re not really “giving up” anything if they attract a business that otherwise wouldn’t be there at all. It’s still a net gain to have a major employer in your locale, along with all the other economic benefits and tax revenue that entails.

I don't understand why people keep downvoting this sentiment. Cities have two options:

(1) Attract a business that wouldn't otherwise come, which when it exists will attract more people that pay state/local sales taxes and increase demand for property, which in turn increases property price, which increases property taxes.

(2) Don't attract the business. . . .. nothing comes after that.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#129

Post by tfehring »

For comparison:

- The deal negotiated by former governor Scott Walker was expected to cost taxpayers between $172k and $290k in government funding per job created. [0]

- $80 million for 1,454 employees, the provisions of the updated deal per TFA, is $55k each.

- The US average cost of similar programs is $24k. [0]

It's not obvious whether this is a good deal, but unlike the original it's not obviously a bad deal.

[0] https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1244...

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#130

Post by munificent »

josefdlange wrote: post #111
kimar wrote: post #33

There's a great Reply All podcast about local politics in the town where this plant is to be built. Beware, it's slightly infuriating. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/wbhjwd

I grew up in Racine County (which contains Mount Pleasant). Let me tell you, SE WI is a strange place. Caught between so many sensibilities and hit so, so hard by economic shifts of the last two decades. I think it suffers, like many places in the American Midwest, the phenomenon of an historically working-class population, who, a few decades ago, would have organized for labor and other rights very vocally and outwa…

> for no understandable reason.

Americans classically derive much of their sense of value from:

1. Work

2. Race (for many white people, especially historically)

...and that's about it. Unlike other cultures our "rugged individualism" means that we don't tend to derive as much sense of worth from family, traditions, organizations we belong to, etc. This is especially true for men who are raised to believe that who they are is what they do.

The economic shift to a service- and knowledge-based economy with many manufacturing and ag jobs being automated or outsourced away has devastated 1. in many communities. The march towards better civil rights and equality is chipping away at 2.

This has left a huge number of Americans feeling that they are worth less than they used to be. People like that are ripe for being exploited. People will buy anything if you tell them you're selling dignity. Trump's "Make America Great Again" slogan was really "Make You Feel Like You're Great Again".

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