How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#51

Post by dsnr » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

querez wrote: post #19

dcolkitt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 60k is more for senior developers. Junior get less. It's always shocking to me how low European SWE compensation is. Is it similar for other skilled professionals? What do accountants, lawyers, civil engineers, pilots, physical therapists, etc. make? I understand the demand side. I think the European tech industry is much less successful than its American counterpart, and therefore has less money to pay. But I don'…

You can make a very decent living on an SWE salary in Germany, and still get to live in a social democracy with a stronger emphasis on "social" than the US (i.e., very solid public services like transportation, education or health care) with a work/life balance that's more strongly tilted in favor of "life" than the US, from what I understand. It's a trade-off, but it's worth it for many.

You’re saying it like everyone can’t wait to live in a welfare state and having to provide for the “welfare” of others. I for one am not looking for anything else than good healthcare.

There’s nothing “tilted” for life when you struggle to make ends meet while paying sky-high rent and having no prospects of ever owning your home.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#52

Post by jcfrei » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

zmachinaz wrote: post #37

I always thought that the top talent is actually leaving Germany to seek better opportunities elsewhere (already since 20y+). Main destinations Switzerland, UK, ...

Swiss labor market is tiny, so not much capacity there. UK no longer in the EU so getting a job there is harder I think. US is across the pond, might be too far away for a lot of people. So I'd say the labor market is a lot less flexible than you might think - lots of top talent still wants to work where they grew up / where their family is.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#53

Post by hiveking » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

zmachinaz wrote: post #37

I always thought that the top talent is actually leaving Germany to seek better opportunities elsewhere (already since 20y+). Main destinations Switzerland, UK, ...

Well, someone has to replace them... and for many (most) people moving to Germany is an improvement anyways. ;)

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#54

Post by estaseuropano » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #5

thanato0s wrote: post #4

Leaving in Germany for 6 years. Moved from France. What I'll say only concern Berlin. The interview process in startup can be more draining than that. Currently, it's more like 4 / 5 steps with (sometimes) 6+ hours homework. Yik. 60k is more for senior developers. Junior get less. Other than that the cost of living in Germany is quite low (lower in Berlin than in the South) and it's a very nice and stable country.

> 60k is more for senior developers. Junior get less. It's always shocking to me how low European SWE compensation is. Is it similar for other skilled professionals? What do accountants, lawyers, civil engineers, pilots, physical therapists, etc. make? I understand the demand side. I think the European tech industry is much less successful than its American counterpart, and therefore has less money to pay. But I don'…

You also have 38h/weeks, 20+ holiday days per year, actual free weekends, many free public services, affordable healthcare with fair insurance that doesn't try to bankrupt you, ... So it balances out. How much do you have to save per month for that 200k health emergency in the US? In Germany - 0€.

If you want to get rich either be a founder or go to the US for a chance at that. If you want a good and happy life with private time your average western European country is great.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#55

Post by gigatexal » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #39

gigatexal wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did, yes. I moved with my wife and two dogs and most of our stuff to Hamburg. The startup paid for the flights, the visa fees (if any, I don’t remember), the container to put our crap in (it was a logistics startup so they knew how to do this rather well), and prepaid for an AirBnB for 3 months for us to find housing. We had hang ups in getting my wife recognized such that we could get on the more lucrative tax sch…

Did you worry about getting shot in the US?

Yes. In Portland where I lived we didn’t make enough to live in the nicer parts of town so we lived in the north east near Gresham and crime was a problem out there. Lots of gang violence.

My comment was a bit flippant. But it was something I thought about from time to time. Here not at all.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#56

Post by estaseuropano » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #24

rapsey wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are not taking into account is that health care costs compared to the US are almost nothing. So is the cost of higher education.

I don't want to rehash the many long debates about whether it's better to be a SWE in Europe or America. There are arguments both ways, and it's been pretty well discussed. My interest is largely orthogonal to that discussion. Assuming you're not leaving the continent, why would anyone (besides those who are very passionate about software) choose to be a European SWE instead of a European actuary?

Do you only decide on your job for the expected salary?

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#57

Post by ecnerwala » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

sdevonoes wrote: post #8

> To sum up: if you are single and opt for "live cool and don't care about expenses" style, then an average developer salary will be enough (it might be harder if you have a family to feed). > On the other hand, if you choose to go the student-like route (living in Wohngemeinschaft and not eating out too much), you can easily manage with just 1.200-1.500 EUR per month, and save the majority of your salary. I know it…

Its not an unpopular opinion in my book. The first sentence, especially the "it might be harder if you have a family to feed", is distressing. If an average developer salary is not enough to do that, then, what are the jobs that DO allow you that ?

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#58

Post by frockington1 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

estaseuropano wrote: post #21

thanato0s wrote: post #4

Leaving in Germany for 6 years. Moved from France. What I'll say only concern Berlin. The interview process in startup can be more draining than that. Currently, it's more like 4 / 5 steps with (sometimes) 6+ hours homework. Yik. 60k is more for senior developers. Junior get less. Other than that the cost of living in Germany is quite low (lower in Berlin than in the South) and it's a very nice and stable country.

Average gross salaries, IT is the second line. https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1789/umfrage/... These are not stunning by US standards, but important to consider that life costs are very different, e.g. you get actually significantly less than this gross salary in your bank account but in return you have unemployment insurance, free school and university for your kids (or super cheap evening masters fo…

If you are a developer in the US you are probably receiving all of that except college tuition. Worth the extra 60K/year in my opinion but I see the appeal of having the option to live off of social programs if needed

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#59

Post by galangalalgol » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #24

rapsey wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are not taking into account is that health care costs compared to the US are almost nothing. So is the cost of higher education.

I don't want to rehash the many long debates about whether it's better to be a SWE in Europe or America. There are arguments both ways, and it's been pretty well discussed. My interest is largely orthogonal to that discussion. Assuming you're not leaving the continent, why would anyone (besides those who are very passionate about software) choose to be a European SWE instead of a European actuary?

Because money wasn't the deciding factor? When I became a programmer we didn't have the term software engineer, and we were reviled for our lack of social skills and poorly paid. I miss those days. All my coworkers were motivated by love of the job. If you wanted to make money you went into banking or finance or law.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#60

Post by estaseuropano » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

gigatexal wrote: post #31

no_one_ever wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you move from US? What is the process like?

I did, yes. I moved with my wife and two dogs and most of our stuff to Hamburg. The startup paid for the flights, the visa fees (if any, I don’t remember), the container to put our crap in (it was a logistics startup so they knew how to do this rather well), and prepaid for an AirBnB for 3 months for us to find housing. We had hang ups in getting my wife recognized such that we could get on the more lucrative tax sch…

Germans complain a lot about the government and lengthy procedures because they mostly haven't experienced what its like in other countries. Stickler for details but if you get those right everything is smooth and swift and no one asks for under the counter money or sends you away just because they don't like your face.