How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#21

Post by estaseuropano » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

thanato0s wrote: post #4

Leaving in Germany for 6 years. Moved from France. What I'll say only concern Berlin. The interview process in startup can be more draining than that. Currently, it's more like 4 / 5 steps with (sometimes) 6+ hours homework. Yik. 60k is more for senior developers. Junior get less. Other than that the cost of living in Germany is quite low (lower in Berlin than in the South) and it's a very nice and stable country.

Average gross salaries, IT is the second line.

https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1789/umfrage/...

These are not stunning by US standards, but important to consider that life costs are very different, e.g. you get actually significantly less than this gross salary in your bank account but in return you have unemployment insurance, free school and university for your kids (or super cheap evening masters for you), health insurance with no significant deductibles (except dentistry), and a serious pension of which you can actually live once you're over 67. Hours are generally reasonable and social protections good, outside the worst quarters of the big cities you have a very safe environment, ...

All in all a good quality of life, but not eye watering salaries.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#22

Post by leifg » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

eloeffler wrote: post #9

I'm surprised the article says nothing about certifications and or degrees, only work experience. I don't work in Software Engineering but I would have assumed that - like anywhere else in Germany - a university degree is required more often than abroad. Or am I wrong about that?

For certain visas you need a university degree (for example the job seeking visa).

When it comes to finding a job a lot of startups (specifically in Berlin) don't require it (the example that I have from a friend is she worked in customer support in a German startup).

A lot of these startups need to communicate in English so being a native English speaker is an advantage.

The issue arises if you want to apply for a work visa for any of these positions. Only a certain number of countries allow you to apply for a work visa while being in the country on a tourist visa (US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Japan, South Korea AFAIK (possibly the UK after Brexit)).

If you're not from any of these countries you'll have to go back to your home country and apply for a visa there.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#23

Post by adrianN » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #17

dkyc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why's that? Saving 18k for 5 years would yield you 90k€, which would be an appropriate 20% down payment on the 450k€ house.

In 5 years, that house might cost a bit more than 450k.

Or it might cost a bit less.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#24

Post by dcolkitt » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

rapsey wrote: post #13

dcolkitt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 60k is more for senior developers. Junior get less. It's always shocking to me how low European SWE compensation is. Is it similar for other skilled professionals? What do accountants, lawyers, civil engineers, pilots, physical therapists, etc. make? I understand the demand side. I think the European tech industry is much less successful than its American counterpart, and therefore has less money to pay. But I don'…

What you are not taking into account is that health care costs compared to the US are almost nothing. So is the cost of higher education.

I don't want to rehash the many long debates about whether it's better to be a SWE in Europe or America. There are arguments both ways, and it's been pretty well discussed.

My interest is largely orthogonal to that discussion. Assuming you're not leaving the continent, why would anyone (besides those who are very passionate about software) choose to be a European SWE instead of a European actuary?

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#25

Post by almoehi » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

lbrito wrote: post #14

sdevonoes wrote: post #8

> To sum up: if you are single and opt for "live cool and don't care about expenses" style, then an average developer salary will be enough (it might be harder if you have a family to feed). > On the other hand, if you choose to go the student-like route (living in Wohngemeinschaft and not eating out too much), you can easily manage with just 1.200-1.500 EUR per month, and save the majority of your salary. I know it…

I assume engineering positions are on the top bracket of salary distribution. If not even this is enough to pursue home ownership, what kind of people are able to afford a house? Honest question.

The general assumption you make is wrong - it’s not like in North americas. There are eng jobs in the top bracket, but the big majority isn’t.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#26

Post by k__ » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

eloeffler wrote: post #9

I'm surprised the article says nothing about certifications and or degrees, only work experience. I don't work in Software Engineering but I would have assumed that - like anywhere else in Germany - a university degree is required more often than abroad. Or am I wrong about that?

Depends on your age and experience, I think.

If you're in your early twenties and don't have much experience, it can be tough to get a job and a degree certainly helps.

If you're over thirty and have worked for many companies, nobody asks for your degree anymore.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#27

Post by Traubenfuchs » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

lbrito wrote: post #14

sdevonoes wrote: post #8

> To sum up: if you are single and opt for "live cool and don't care about expenses" style, then an average developer salary will be enough (it might be harder if you have a family to feed). > On the other hand, if you choose to go the student-like route (living in Wohngemeinschaft and not eating out too much), you can easily manage with just 1.200-1.500 EUR per month, and save the majority of your salary. I know it…

I assume engineering positions are on the top bracket of salary distribution. If not even this is enough to pursue home ownership, what kind of people are able to afford a house? Honest question.

Lawyers, consultants, doctors, couples and don‘t forget about those who inherit some money and those who are happy with a 300k single apartment.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#28

Post by hacliff » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

thanato0s wrote: post #4

Leaving in Germany for 6 years. Moved from France. What I'll say only concern Berlin. The interview process in startup can be more draining than that. Currently, it's more like 4 / 5 steps with (sometimes) 6+ hours homework. Yik. 60k is more for senior developers. Junior get less. Other than that the cost of living in Germany is quite low (lower in Berlin than in the South) and it's a very nice and stable country.

You should revisit this, in the last couple of years this has moved quite a bit, I'd say it's closer to 70-75 now. Obviously you'll get more in the states (or even frankfurt!), but it's changing rapidly.

There's also some offers in berlin for meaningfully higher, I'm just taking a ballpark average for senior.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#29

Post by sneak » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

querez wrote: post #19

dcolkitt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 60k is more for senior developers. Junior get less. It's always shocking to me how low European SWE compensation is. Is it similar for other skilled professionals? What do accountants, lawyers, civil engineers, pilots, physical therapists, etc. make? I understand the demand side. I think the European tech industry is much less successful than its American counterpart, and therefore has less money to pay. But I don'…

You can make a very decent living on an SWE salary in Germany, and still get to live in a social democracy with a stronger emphasis on "social" than the US (i.e., very solid public services like transportation, education or health care) with a work/life balance that's more strongly tilted in favor of "life" than the US, from what I understand. It's a trade-off, but it's worth it for many.

You'd have to tilt a lot more than what Germany does to make it worth it; equivalent healthcare in the US is only €15k in additional costs. (The messy healthcare situation the US is famous for only really affects the poor.)

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#30

Post by DasIch » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

thanato0s wrote: post #4

Leaving in Germany for 6 years. Moved from France. What I'll say only concern Berlin. The interview process in startup can be more draining than that. Currently, it's more like 4 / 5 steps with (sometimes) 6+ hours homework. Yik. 60k is more for senior developers. Junior get less. Other than that the cost of living in Germany is quite low (lower in Berlin than in the South) and it's a very nice and stable country.

60k for a senior engineer in Berlin is too low. 75k at the lower end is quite reasonable and 80-90k is definitely possible, if you're good at what you do.