Though I agree that in most cases death penalty should not be used, in some very specific but not rare cases - like mass shootings with dozens dead - where you have a lot of video and DNA evidence and dozens of witnesses - I just can't find a single argument against it. If I find any - I would gladly change my mind.
The real reason to end the death penalty
101–110 of 546 posts
Re: The real reason to end the death penalty
#102Re: The real reason to end the death penalty
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if they did the murder because of a brain tumor messing up their impulse control ability? Humans are just complicated machines that go wrong sometimes. I do however share your emotional position and it would make me feel better to see (actual) murderers get the death penalty.
Someone disabled to the point of having no compass for right and wrong would have what is legally known as “diminished mental capacity” and not be convicted of first degree murder. If you genuinely hallucinate that I am an attacking Pit Bull and kill me, you are not guilty of first degree murder and I would not want you executed.
> “diminished mental capacity”
As we learn more about neuroscience, every murderer will look like they have "diminished mental capacity". This legal construct is merely a statement of our ignorance to understand what's actually going on in their brain.
Re: The real reason to end the death penalty
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're human. Revenge has no place in civilized society.
“Revenge has no place in a civilized society” is just an opinion. Mine is different. I don’t believe a society is civilized if it treats murderers with anything less than the most extreme vengeance.
Then the world would be better off without you.
Re: The real reason to end the death penalty
#105Though I agree that in most cases death penalty should not be used, in some very specific but not rare cases - like mass shootings with dozens dead - where you have a lot of video and DNA evidence and dozens of witnesses - I just can't find a single argument against it. If I find any - I would gladly change my mind.
It's as if you need guilt proven beyond reasonable doubt.
Re: The real reason to end the death penalty
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
49% of Brits would support the reintroduction of the death penalty. I suspect that the same is true across Europe and that you are living in a bubble. [0] [0] https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-the-dea...
Right up to the point where you explain what that means in practice. As ever with polls it depends how you frame the question.
In shocking news the majority of people polled believed they should be paid more and be taxed less.
Re: The real reason to end the death penalty
#107Re: The real reason to end the death penalty
#108I think no other justification is needed to end the death penalty than “it’s inhuman and barbaric”. Even discussing other factors arguments and considerations dilutes the core point that’s it’s straight up wrong unethical and inhuman to murder others in the name of the law. Paul Graham has a valid point, but if you say “it’s wrong cause it’s inaccurate”, implies it’s right if it’s accurate. And it’s not... the death…
That is not a helpful argument. It certainly is inhuman and barbaric, but is it less inhuman and barbaric than the alternatives? Criminals sentenced to death are supposed to be a danger to society so great that the only solution is to eliminate them. So, typical trolley problem: is it better to kill a criminal or let him go, potentially resulting in the death or several more innocent victims. Prison for life is anoth…
If the only reason we sentence people to death were because it is more humane than putting them in prison for life, then it would be given as an option to the prisoner. I don't know of any case of someone sentenced to life in prison who argued they would rather be put to death.
Edit: I've now done some research and found some death-row-inmates do express a preference for a death sentence:
https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2012/09/25/why-death-row-inmates-...
https://www.quora.com/Is-prison-crueller-than-the-death-pena...
Re: The real reason to end the death penalty
#109Another solution is having a no doubt standard needed for the death penalty as opposed to a beyond a reasonable doubt standard. No doubt standard would require some set elements. DNA + visual recording + electronic records. I used to be anti death penalty but would be ok with it under a no doubt standard. Not for vengeance but simply society can spend the money on other things instead of spending money housing and fe…
I hope you realize that meeting that no doubt standard is going to cost a lot of money. The judiciary procedures for death penalty is extremely high, as are all the related costs for death rows & execution. In fact death penalty costs already more than life in prison: https://www.thebalance.com/comparing-the-costs-of-death-pena... And that's with the current error-prone system. Think of what it would take to ensure t…
A no doubt standard need not cost extra money.
This is from evidence already collected.
Costs would actually be reduced as can shorten the appeals process when a no doubt standard has been met.
Mass murders who don't hide their killings would be one example. Costs no extra money to meet the no doubt standard.
Re: The real reason to end the death penalty
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think there is a somewhat reasonable argument that a punishment should mirror the crime, and any less than inhuman and barbaric to the inhuman and barbaric lacks actual justice? I’m not saying I agree, I don’t personally support the death sentence, but if you’re actually interested in changing peoples minds it’s good to know where they’re coming from, and why they may not find your argument compelling. I personally…
You can never 'match' the crime. Even if you go justicing around 'an eye for an eye' style, the perp will always have taken the initiative. You can never get that back. Everything you do is just a reaction. That is what makes crime so heinous. So your focus should be prevention at any cost first and foremost, then justice as prevention (= rehabilitation) as well. Murdering a murderer is pretty solid prevention though…
> You can never get that back. Everything you do is just a reaction.
Yes, but you can try. I can see why the loved ones of a murdered person feel someone is 'getting away' when he is still alive. Killing them feels much more like payback.
I don't that this does reasonably make sense, but I can understand where they are coming from.