Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment • Hacker News Board

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#91

Post by jmcgough » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 6:17 AM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #17

credit_guy wrote: post #16

Ms Haddaway made a secret deal with the prosecutors and the prosecutors did not reveal this. But did she lie? What this article forgets to mention is that Ms Haddaway wore a wire and got Jonathan Smith on tape that he committed the murder in order to get $60000 [1]. Here's part of the dialog for reader's convenience: "[BH:]Why were you in that field with blood all over ya? And they take, I seen ya goin’up the road th…

I suspect at least half the people exonerated by the Innocence Project are in fact guilty. However, I think that sloppy police work should never be rewarded with a guilty verdict, even if it's likely the defendant is guilty.

They don't have a lot of resources so they only take on cases that are clear injustices.

Usually this means that there's good evidence that the person is actually innocent and the trial was completely botched. There are plenty of rural areas where the court decides that someone "seems" guilty and then suppresses any evidence that doesn't support that.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#92

Post by DubiousPusher » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 6:21 AM UTC

plank_time wrote: post #26

fortran77 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect at least half the people exonerated by the Innocence Project are in fact guilty. However, I think that sloppy police work should never be rewarded with a guilty verdict, even if it's likely the defendant is guilty.

I have a friend who works for ICE. She has literally deported assassins for the Mexican cartels. She said the hardest part of her job is that cities like San Francisco give millions of dollars to activist lawyers to help keep these criminals in the US. The activist lawyers and even SF know that these are real criminals but they don’t care. That money could be going to help the cases of real illegal immigrants who are…

> cities like San Francisco give millions of dollars to activist lawyers to help keep these criminals in the US.

This is HN. Please provide evidence of such a claim.

> The activist lawyers and even SF know that these are real criminals but they don’t care.

This is highly speculative. What possible motivation could they have for this?

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#93

Post by kevingadd » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 6:47 AM UTC

publicola1990 wrote: post #31

pstuart wrote: post #2

Prosecutorial misconduct like that should be punished severely -- there needs to be accountability for destroying other people's lives.

Rather better than that, can the government be sued for damages for wrongful imprisonment?

Sometimes the government does pay out for wrongful imprisonment, but it's always insultingly low numbers, in the range of a couple thousand usd per year. And in many cases prisoners are Monetized with the for-profit prison operator and their vendors collecting exorbitant fees for basic things.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#94

Post by emmelaich » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 6:59 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #35

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich.

Do you know what indict means?

It's a reference to this quote:

> New York State chief judge Sol Wachtler was famously quoted by Tom Wolfe in The Bonfire of the Vanities that "a grand jury would 'indict a ham sandwich,' if that's what you wanted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham_sandwich

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#95

Post by vagrantJin » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 6:59 AM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #66

pjc50 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one of these "assassins" has an actual conviction in the US before they were deported, I'm sure you can name one and find some proof of this, otherwise it's just accusing people without evidence. ICE have no right to declare someone an assassin.

Yes, that’s the difference between an assassin and an “assassin.” With no conviction, a guy could be Mr. Rogers on paper — still doesn’t change the fact that he’s killed 20 people.

Thats certainly in the realm of possibility but the evidence of that needs to be clear. Accusations like that are one step removed from complete paranoia.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#96

Post by szc » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

credit_guy wrote: post #16

Ms Haddaway made a secret deal with the prosecutors and the prosecutors did not reveal this. But did she lie? What this article forgets to mention is that Ms Haddaway wore a wire and got Jonathan Smith on tape that he committed the murder in order to get $60000 [1]. Here's part of the dialog for reader's convenience: "[BH:]Why were you in that field with blood all over ya? And they take, I seen ya goin’up the road th…

I've read the full report. Quoting just this is disturbingly misleading.

There is a family relationship between JS and BH. Even in 1987 (the time of the murder) it appears to be hostile. At the time this snippet was recorded it was 13 years later and BH had manipulated the police into agreeing to drop drug charges against her grandson in exchange for testimony. Oddly this seems like a pattern, because BH also offered to help police with the same evidence in 1994 when a Shawn Haddaway was being charged for 3 offenses -- no explanation for this is given, or the relationship.

[edit: From the other link posted by bb88 (thanks, reading now), Shawn Haddaway was the son of BH]

What other conversations, that were not recorded, occurred between JS and BH prior to this "wiretap"? Had BH been badgering JS for days and the responses JS gave were just "giving her what she wanted" -- if so, it would be classic broken family relationship crap -- I recommended reading some of Deborah Tannen's books.

This snippet also doesn't explain why someone else also admitted to the murder, for which there was physical evidence available, but was suppressed.

What happened is very sad -- a person was murdered. But it is far, far more complicated than what is in this snippet.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#97

Post by spoonjim » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:05 AM UTC

vagrantJin wrote: post #95

spoonjim wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s the difference between an assassin and an “assassin.” With no conviction, a guy could be Mr. Rogers on paper — still doesn’t change the fact that he’s killed 20 people.

Thats certainly in the realm of possibility but the evidence of that needs to be clear. Accusations like that are one step removed from complete paranoia.

Well the evidence would have to be clear to deport a single person. But a general trend could be enough justification to shut down immigration from certain countries. That is not a personal punishment like a deportation, so it does not need conclusive proof (which of course doesn’t exist, there is no country which sends exclusively or predominantly bad immigrants to the US).

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#98

Post by londons_explore » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

This folks is why you keep location history turned on on your phone and why you audio record everything.

When the police try to frame you for something you didn't do, you won't have to spend 21 years behind bars.

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#99

Post by rytis » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:49 AM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #5

> Ms. Haddaway had demanded that the state dismiss unrelated drug charges against her grandson in exchange for her testimony against Mr. Smith and Mr. Faulkner. The recordings also show that the state refused to place that deal in writing to prevent Ms. Haddaway from being cross-examined on the issue. The state, in fact, dismissed the charges three days before Mr. Andrews’s trial was scheduled to begin. So they didn'…

For those not fluent in Latin (I had to look up) "quid pro quo" means "a favour or advantage granted in return for something".

Re: Jonathan Smith walks free after 21 years of wrongful imprisonment

#100

Post by akiselev » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:56 AM UTC

hervature wrote: post #53

lazyasciiart wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I read first hand experiences. Your friend can be whatever she wants, but if she is trying to argue that ICE doesn't pursue non-criminals, she is untrustworthy.

Technically, crossing the border is a crime. You should clarify you mean violent criminals.

No, it's not a crime - it's a civil offense by deliberate design. If it were a crime, it'd have to be judged in a criminal court with juries and a whole lot of inconvenient rights instead of the farce that is immigration courts.