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Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

ethereumcashflow.com

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Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#261

Post by devmunchies »

CynicusRex wrote: post #15

Get your pyramid Ponzi out of here: https://www.cynicusrex.com/file/cryptocultscience.html .

i like your writing. but IMO inflation is related to "Regarding energy" section as well.

Constant inflation will require the entire economy to always be active or they will slowly fall behind.

you acknowledge that "you basically worked a month for free" due to you savings being devalued.

If a dollar represents energy or labor, then every dollar really represents the current value of labor and a discounted, amortized accumulation of labor into the future. It's almost like inflation and the time-value of money are baked into every dollar, conceptually. Inflation forces everyone to work. Working for the sake of working isn't energy efficient either. It's probably why crypto exists at all, because people need to always be hustling to stay ahead.

...Not that you need crypto to remove inflation.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#262

Post by orky56 »

kristjansson wrote: post #95
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like this? 0: Holder has ETH 1: Holder borrows Tether, provieds ETH as collateral 2: Holder uses Tether to buy a house 3: Holder borrows Dollar, provides house as collateral 4: Holder buys Tether with Dollar 5: Holder pays back Tether, gets back ETH. 6: Holder now has ETH + House + Dollar Dept If so, why couldn't they lend the dollars to buy the house in the first place? The bank which lends the dollars certainly cou…

Rates are lower on margin loan, and they’re easier to get compared to a proper mortgage (assuming, you know, you have value assets to borrow against)

Rates might be lower but they're not usually fixed. They're easier to get assuming your liquidity is in equities versus crypto or even a stable income. There's a reason mortgage financing is still more prevalent than margin loans despite what you've stated which are inherent benefits.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#263

Post by graeme »

asenna wrote: post #176
Kathula wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah 99% of Ethereums use-cases is creating erc-20 tokens. Most of which is just iterations with slight variables of something that already exists.

This statement feels straight out of 2017. Have you looked into the Ethereum ecosystem of 2021 by any chance? Some examples: - You can use your tokens as collateral, borrow stablecoins and pay off your mortgage while the loan pays itself off from the interest being generated by the collateral - you do not have to pay back the loan => https://alchemix.fi/ - Borrow stablecoins at 0% interest on your collateral => https…

Why would a loan pay itself or why would someone give you an interest free loan when those same stablecoins pay out 20%+ interest if deposited?

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#264

Post by brightball »

sherlock_h wrote: post #7

What mostly excites me about Ethereum ist the very vibrant ecosystem of developers and builders around it. You can think of NFTs and DeFi whatever you want, the sheer amount of new applications and innovative ideas on the ethereum blockchain has been mind-boggling. My personal favorite is Sorare, which combines NFT collectibles with fantasy soccer. And sure, right now everything suffers from high gas prices but it lo…

This is where Ethereum gets my interest as well. The value in anything comes from a combination of scarcity AND liquidity (being able to sell it to people willing to buy it).

It seems to me that with ETH set to be the backbone behind the entire crypto-ecosystem (especially with news like Visa), it will have guaranteed liquidity built into it due to that system.

With any other cryptocurrency, the value seems to only exist from constantly trying to convince people to buy more of it, like a global pump and dump scheme. Bitcoin has such a high price because of brand recognition in that regard.

But branding is the only thing really powering it long term.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#265

Post by cinquemb »

lottin wrote: post #258
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, the government does buy its own bonds. Via the central bank. They print the money. Hold it for a few days. Then buy government bonds with it. Read what the european central bank (ECB) writes about it: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/scpwps/ecbwp1956.en.pdf https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/implement/pepp/html/index.en.... Search for "government bonds" in these papers.

The central bank buys bonds in the secondary market, and any effect on the risk premium is only indirect (investors perceive the bonds as being safer). This is completely different from the government "dictating the risk premium". The risk premium is the spread deemed necessary by the market to compensate for credit risk, and as such it can't be dictated by anyone.

Then there is also the downstream effects of buying these "safe" bonds on the secondary market: strip mining the "highest" quality collateral out of markets, and making markets ever more reliant upon fewer on tradeable cusips…

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#266

Post by terrortrain »

dash2 wrote: post #175
dmihal wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider earning interest to be speculation? I can put stablecoins (crypto dollars) in a lending protocol like Aave and earn ~10% APY. Compare that to my savings account, which pays out 0.25% APY. Or how about the stablecoins themselves? MakerDAO creates the Dai stablecoin, backed by crypto-native assets like ETH & BTC. I have a number of friends in Argentina who are surviving hyper-inflation by keeping their…

Earning 10% "riskfree" isn't speculation, it's a Ponzi. What serious borrower needs to pay 10% to access credit? So then, who are the borrowers who are paying this interest? As they say on Reddit: !remindme 1 year.

It's not a ponzi.

Lookup what a ponzi scheme is.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#267

Post by CyberDildonics »

dmihal wrote: post #151
lottin wrote: post #10

The fact that something is scarce doesn't make it a store of value. Scarce simply means is in short supply, but prices aren't determined by supply alone, they are determined by supply and demand. Moreover, if an asset is in fixed supply, then its price is determined entirely by the demand. This means such an asset will only be a store of value if the demand for the asset remains strong over a long period of time, whi…

Exactly, Ethereum is a better Store of Value than Bitcoin, not only because it is scarce, but because it provides utility, which creates demand. People need ETH for: * Paying transaction fees to use the network. For example, Visa is now settling payments with card issuers using USDC on Ethereum, so Visa needs to pay these fees with ETH. * Collateral in financial applications: Over 11 million ETH (over $24 billion) ha…

Utility? The transaction fees are around $30 USD now.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#268

Post by CyberDildonics »

kolinko wrote: post #108
londons_explore wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What scares me from Ethereum is the very vibrant ecosystem of developers and builders around it. Look back at Ethereum's history and the vast vast majority of historical projects are dead. People who invested time or money into them have lost out. What makes it different now?

You could say the same about startups on general

Are there any decentralized companies on ethereum making a steady income for people who invested in them?

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#269

Post by Sargos »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #268
kolinko wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same about startups on general

Are there any decentralized companies on ethereum making a steady income for people who invested in them?

Maker, YFI, Aave just to name a few. https://cryptofees.info/ lists the real cash flows of protocols.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#270

Post by spinny »

throwaway_isms wrote: post #89
lottin wrote: post #10

The fact that something is scarce doesn't make it a store of value. Scarce simply means is in short supply, but prices aren't determined by supply alone, they are determined by supply and demand. Moreover, if an asset is in fixed supply, then its price is determined entirely by the demand. This means such an asset will only be a store of value if the demand for the asset remains strong over a long period of time, whi…

The money behind big tech has mastered manipulating demand and that is exactly what you are seeing in the Ethereum/NFT ecosystem. It is one giant fraud bankrolled by unlimited capital that can artificially increase prices at which point there becomes demand from people in fear of missing out, once the early capital has the suckers locked in the prices plateau at first as the capital stops buying and driving the price…

100% agree. ERC20 have matured to the point where some valuable projects actually exists. There is probably some shady business around NTFs today and the non-shady business portion of the market is very small.

imho, NFTs have lots of potential to facilitate purchase and sell of real world items (buy a car with a USDC transaction to a smart contract). This is the NFT "killer app" to me

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