Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

ethereumcashflow.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 302 posts

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#91

Post by zoshi »

tim333 wrote: post #81
zoshi wrote: post #60

Cash flow is for businesses. Ethereum doesn’t know what it is. The rules are always changing, running a full node is practically impossible, and issuance is always changing. It’s not even clear that the features claimed in this paper will be true one year from now. Multiple consensus failures (most recently this last month) and constant design changes do not provide a secure foundation for sound money.

It could be a case of the perfect is the enemy of the good though. I mean Ethereum isn't perfect but not much else is either.

If I’m going to stick my savings in a cryptocurrency, I want the network to be stable for the foreseeable future (and be private, but that’s another story).

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#92

Post by meowkit »

zoshi wrote: post #60

Cash flow is for businesses. Ethereum doesn’t know what it is. The rules are always changing, running a full node is practically impossible, and issuance is always changing. It’s not even clear that the features claimed in this paper will be true one year from now. Multiple consensus failures (most recently this last month) and constant design changes do not provide a secure foundation for sound money.

So what you’re saying is that this random pdf website is the ultimate say on what Ethereum is? Not maybe what the EF has to say?

https://ethereum.org/en/what-is-ethereum/

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#93

Post by intricatedetail »

sherlock_h wrote: post #7

What mostly excites me about Ethereum ist the very vibrant ecosystem of developers and builders around it. You can think of NFTs and DeFi whatever you want, the sheer amount of new applications and innovative ideas on the ethereum blockchain has been mind-boggling. My personal favorite is Sorare, which combines NFT collectibles with fantasy soccer. And sure, right now everything suffers from high gas prices but it lo…

Is there any material that explains NFT what it is for? I have a general idea, but to me it makes no sense e.g. what is the advantage over an invoice for something you bought.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#94

Post by inter_netuser »

meowkit wrote: post #88
inter_netuser wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of Stake just means those with the biggest money bags (stake sounds so much better than wealth) rule over you, explicitly. It is simply plutocracy, but with cute emojis.

So we don’t have plutocracy in the current fiat money system(s)? Relative inequality is super low and investment opportunities abound for all income levels? We don’t have a plutocracy in PoW coins like BTC either right? Super cheap and easy to spin up a mining operation I heard.

Given that nearly every miner and large exchange/business tried and failed to force changes to BTC, I'd argue that influence of plutocrats on the fundamental properties of Bitcoin is significantly lower.

Failure of the New York Agreement is certainly more reassuring than never-ending hard forks.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#95

Post by kristjansson »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #73
orky56 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally many crypto holders prefer to not liquidate their crypto positions but instead take out loans via BlockFi to purchase hard assets like real estate. With cash in hand and now a property, they can get a cash out refi and the crypto loan is not a taxable event since the crypto was just collateral.

Like this? 0: Holder has ETH 1: Holder borrows Tether, provieds ETH as collateral 2: Holder uses Tether to buy a house 3: Holder borrows Dollar, provides house as collateral 4: Holder buys Tether with Dollar 5: Holder pays back Tether, gets back ETH. 6: Holder now has ETH + House + Dollar Dept If so, why couldn't they lend the dollars to buy the house in the first place? The bank which lends the dollars certainly cou…

Rates are lower on margin loan, and they’re easier to get compared to a proper mortgage (assuming, you know, you have value assets to borrow against)

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#96

Post by lottin »

inter_netuser wrote: post #75
lottin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing a risk-free rate (government bonds) with a rate on risky investments. Not really comparable at all. You can also find high-yield bonds (aka junk bonds) denominated in USD. Also real interest rates are set by the market not governments. Monetary policy has, at best, only small effects on real rates (in theory it should have none).

the risk-free bonds have failed numerous times. Often they wiped out investors entirely. Full list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_debt_crises They cannot print value, only paper.

And you'll find these failed governments bonds were paying a considerable risk premium, i.e. a spread over the risk-free rate.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#97

Post by inter_netuser »

birracerveza wrote: post #82
inter_netuser wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will likely not fail due to a direct attack on PoS. Ethereum has shown they are willing to rollback the chain in case of attacks. What's more concerning is that Proof of Wealth (which is what Stake really is), is just going to lead to those with biggest balances dictating rules to everyone else. Exactly what happened in EOS, Steem, etc... It will become a plutocracy with cute emojis.

>It will become a plutocracy with cute emojis. Three comments repeating the same point are not enough, you should spam this argument some more, maybe then it will make sense.

Do you have any actual counterpoints w.r.t previous numerous failures of POS?

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#98

Post by ZitchDog »

inter_netuser wrote: post #86
asjdflakjsdf wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd basically see it as an investment opportunity that greatly favours early adopters.

70% of ethereum was sold at rock bottom prices to "early adopters" in a presale. You are right. It is a ponzi.

It must also be unsustainable without new entrants.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#99

Post by londons_explore »

sherlock_h wrote: post #7

What mostly excites me about Ethereum ist the very vibrant ecosystem of developers and builders around it. You can think of NFTs and DeFi whatever you want, the sheer amount of new applications and innovative ideas on the ethereum blockchain has been mind-boggling. My personal favorite is Sorare, which combines NFT collectibles with fantasy soccer. And sure, right now everything suffers from high gas prices but it lo…

What scares me from Ethereum is the very vibrant ecosystem of developers and builders around it.

Look back at Ethereum's history and the vast vast majority of historical projects are dead. People who invested time or money into them have lost out.

What makes it different now?

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#100

Post by inter_netuser »

londons_explore wrote: post #99
sherlock_h wrote: post #7

What mostly excites me about Ethereum ist the very vibrant ecosystem of developers and builders around it. You can think of NFTs and DeFi whatever you want, the sheer amount of new applications and innovative ideas on the ethereum blockchain has been mind-boggling. My personal favorite is Sorare, which combines NFT collectibles with fantasy soccer. And sure, right now everything suffers from high gas prices but it lo…

What scares me from Ethereum is the very vibrant ecosystem of developers and builders around it. Look back at Ethereum's history and the vast vast majority of historical projects are dead. People who invested time or money into them have lost out. What makes it different now?

ICOs? or smart contracts broken by never-ending hardforks?
Post reply on HN