Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

eu.usatoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 234 posts

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#171

Post by vidoc »

rossitter wrote: post #169
vidoc wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That and diving. There is something even more painful to watch than soccer simulations: sports that encourage killing the watch like football, baseball and basketball. At least in diving, a little bit of acting talent is involved.

There's no watch to kill in baseball. You have to get the other team out a set number of times.

Correct, but the use of stoppage is a little bit similar to the use of timeouts in other sports, in my humble opinion.

Another dishonorable gameplay of baseball that makes me hate it (my apologies for not remembering how this is called): this move batters often do to just amortize the ball so the field players can snag an extra base!

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#172

Post by ldrndll »

cjrp wrote: post #151
NoOneNew wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

> Rugby and hockey have that shit figured out, why cant they? Something else they could learn from rugby, respect for the officials. The number of times you see football players chasing after or arguing with the referee is just embarrassing. Rugby officials don't stand for it, neither should football officials.

As someone who grew up watching rugby and only got into football as an adult, I couldn't believe the amount of disrespect players show to officials. I think I spent the first two years constantly saying "in rugby this guy would have been sent off by now" on repeat...

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#173

Post by LgWoodenBadger »

vidoc wrote: post #167
NoOneNew wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

> That and diving. There is something even more painful to watch than soccer simulations: sports that encourage killing the watch like football, baseball and basketball. At least in diving, a little bit of acting talent is involved.

Basketball has the opposite problem: clock-stopping in close games through intentional fouls.

The shot-clock in basketball was introduced to prevent clock killing, and promote scoring.

Basketbal

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#174

Post by rossitter »

vidoc wrote: post #171
rossitter wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no watch to kill in baseball. You have to get the other team out a set number of times.

Correct, but the use of stoppage is a little bit similar to the use of timeouts in other sports, in my humble opinion. Another dishonorable gameplay of baseball that makes me hate it (my apologies for not remembering how this is called): this move batters often do to just amortize the ball so the field players can snag an extra base!

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "stoppage"? I think baseball does have a pacing problem, but it's really cultural more than anything else: games are about 1.5x as long today as they were 50 years ago, even though in terms of what happens (number of pitches, batters, etc.) they're basically the same. Unfortunately the main way to combat this, the "pitch clock" rule, is unenforced. I can't imagine why.

I don't understand what you mean by your "dishonorable gameplay" example. What does amortizing a ball mean to you?

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#175

Post by vidoc »

dustinmoris wrote: post #161
NoOneNew wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

> That and diving. Seriously, fuck FIFA and all the EU leagues. They cant figure out how to deal with diving and playing for time, I cant figure out why I should care. It's painful to watch any sport where grown men fake getting hurt. This is the only football I know. That's why I was never interested in watching football as a kid and I'm still not today as an adult. I am an absolute sport enthusiast and play everyth…

In a way, the drama is a genuine part of the sport. Many matches became memorable just due to these theatrics.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#176

Post by lotsofpulp »

NoOneNew wrote: post #166
slg wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They cant figure out how to deal with diving and playing for time I always find these complaints strange coming from American fans. "Playing for time" is hugely important and mainstream strategy in the NFL. Coaches will be criticized if they don't run the ball enough when they have the lead in the 4th quarter. Meanwhile flopping is hugely common in the NBA. You can just search Youtube for "LeBron flops"[1] for plent…

To be fair, American Football is a game based around playing for time. What's interesting, college games are a bit more faster paced, mostly because those kids have something to prove so they can get into the NFL draft. Either way, I dont like American football without friends, snacks and booze. Baseball on TV, I feel the same, in it for the party. Theyre slow sports in reality. Though, in person, at the stadium, bas…

>To be fair, American Football is a game based around playing for time.

And time for advertisements.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#177

Post by iso1631 »

rkangel wrote: post #106

This article presents a simplistic "UK football good, American football bad" viewpoint, but there some aspects to how the NFL is run that are desirable. Primarily here I'm talking about negative feedback. In the Premier League (as well as Formula 1, for example) there is positive feedback that keeps the top teams at the top. Being successful means that you make more money (whether directly through prize money, or ind…

> If you support one of those top five or six clubs - good for you. If you don't, then you don't have a realistic chance of seeing a league win in your lifetime.

And yet right now two of the top 6 teams are not the "6 big clubs" - Leicester and West Ham.

Liverpool, who walked the season last year, are doing about as well as Everton. Man City, who are currently top, lost just 2 weeks ago against Leeds - at home. I'm sure that Leeds fans were delighted by that performance, 10 years ago they were languishing in the 3rd tier. I know for a fact the football nerds in my family were delighted to see Wolves doing so well recently.

A football team is for life, not just for Christmas. You don't choose your team, it's something built in, whether you like football (or sport) or not.

My Dad, like his dad before him, and his dad before him, supported Wolves from a wee nipper in the 50s when they were winning the league (53-54 - snatching it from rival WBA, being claimed "Champions of the World" apparently for defeating Hungary, and being one of the first British teams in the champions league) through to his deathbed last month. Clearly in the 50s Wolves were one of the "big 6".

In the 60s they were doing great again, starting off with FA Cup wins and 2nd/3rd places in the league but by the mid 60s they were relegated. They bounced around in the 60s and 70s between first and second tiers, but by the mid 80s they were down in the 4th tier. Local boy Steve Bull came, and being far better than Andy Gray, catapulted Wolves back up the leagues. I remember them beating the undefeatable Man U about that time. With a "super league" that type of victory doesn't come.

In 2013 they were back in tier 3. The 2017/18 season they did outstandingly in Tier 2, greatest season for decades (or so I'm informed), and the following season in the top tier was blistering too - finishing 7th, getting into Europe, reaching the FA Cup Semi finals. What an exciting 5 years.

It's not just Wolves of course. Leicester were in the 3rd tier in 2008. By 2016 they'd won the Premier league. That type of rise, in 8 years, is the stuff dreams are made of.

Watford had a cracking Semi Final game against Wolves in 2019, coming from 2-0 down to win in extra time. Wolves had got rid of "big" teams like Man U on the way up, and the FA Cup is where anything can happen.

They lost 6-0. Man City were unstoppable. not bad for a team that were in the 3rd tier as recently as 1998

Crawley Town beat Leeds earlier this year in the FA Cup. In 2013 it was Wigan knocking out Man City. In 2015 3rd tier Bradford knocked out Chelsea. Third tier Oldham beat Liverpool in 2013, and of course non-league Lincoln beat Premier league Burnley in 2013, reaching the FA Cup quarter finals.

English Football has never been about a battle between a few big teams. When the century-old Wimbledon were Americaned, bought and moved 60 miles to Milton Keynes, the fans got behind the replacement. The replacements started off in the 9th tier, and are currently fighting the previous Wimbledon (now Milton Keynes) in the 3rd tier.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#178

Post by lotsofpulp »

randomsearch wrote: post #136
nradov wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Man City players are actually from Manchester? I fail to see the connection to the local community.

In a recent game half of the Manchester United onfield players were local or academy players. Mostly local. I’m so confused by this question. Do clubs in other sports not play a massive part in the community? Manchester United did so much to help people in the pandemic. They have strong links with local charities. The footballers do a lot for charity. Rashford is an obvious superstar in that regard but it’s across th…

>Do American sports clubs not play a massive part in their community? I don’t get why this question keeps coming up. Of course the clubs are central institutions in their community...

I grew up in the US, and I always viewed them as businesses. They sell entertainment, and are free to do what's needed to boost their bottom lines. The businesses can move (and have moved) to wherever they think they might earn more money.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#179

Post by iso1631 »

slg wrote: post #137
chrisseaton wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This makes the sport more interesting to watch as a fan - it's not the same few contenders year in year out. I don't understand - isn't this backwards? It is the same few contenders in the NFL every year isn't it? But it isn't in the English football leagues where teams relegate and promote every year. When did a team last join the NFL? 2002? And before then? 1996? I think beyond that you're possibly talking about…

I think you are using the generic definition of "contenders" and not the way it is traditionally used in a sports context (at least in the US). "Contending" doesn't mean merely participating in a league. It means having a realistic shot at winning the title. The specific teams that are in the league don't change much in the NFL anymore, but the teams that are near the top of the league are much more fluid in the NFL…

> It means having a realistic shot at winning the title

"If Leicester City win the premier league I'll do MOTD in my undies"

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#180

Post by vidoc »

rossitter wrote: post #174
vidoc wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, but the use of stoppage is a little bit similar to the use of timeouts in other sports, in my humble opinion. Another dishonorable gameplay of baseball that makes me hate it (my apologies for not remembering how this is called): this move batters often do to just amortize the ball so the field players can snag an extra base!

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "stoppage"? I think baseball does have a pacing problem, but it's really cultural more than anything else: games are about 1.5x as long today as they were 50 years ago, even though in terms of what happens (number of pitches, batters, etc.) they're basically the same. Unfortunately the main way to combat this, the "pitch clock" rule, is unenforced. I can't imagine why. I don't un…

> Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "stoppage"? When players or coaches call timeouts (I don't know if this is the official name), even tho there is no clock to interrupt, to interrupt the flow of the game at key moments.

> I don't understand what you mean by your "dishonorable gameplay" example. What does amortizing a ball mean to you?

It took me some time to find out, but this is what I was refering to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunt_(baseball).

Now truth be told, one thing that makes me love baseball is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Gaedel#At_the_plate.

Post reply on HN