US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer • Hacker News Board

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#161

Post by dustinmoris » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #126

rkangel wrote: post #106

This article presents a simplistic "UK football good, American football bad" viewpoint, but there some aspects to how the NFL is run that are desirable. Primarily here I'm talking about negative feedback. In the Premier League (as well as Formula 1, for example) there is positive feedback that keeps the top teams at the top. Being successful means that you make more money (whether directly through prize money, or ind…

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

> That and diving. Seriously, fuck FIFA and all the EU leagues. They cant figure out how to deal with diving and playing for time, I cant figure out why I should care. It's painful to watch any sport where grown men fake getting hurt.

This is the only football I know. That's why I was never interested in watching football as a kid and I'm still not today as an adult. I am an absolute sport enthusiast and play everything from football to basketball, skateboarding and what not but I can't watch a bunch of drama queens having a cry when the wind blew their hair the wrong direction or someone got slightly touched by another player. The sport seriously needs more Zidanes who know how to head butt if someone is making a scene.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#162

Post by NoOneNew » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

cjrp wrote: post #151

NoOneNew wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

> Rugby and hockey have that shit figured out, why cant they? Something else they could learn from rugby, respect for the officials. The number of times you see football players chasing after or arguing with the referee is just embarrassing. Rugby officials don't stand for it, neither should football officials.

Absolutely. What's the joke regarding the two sports? Football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans while rugby is a hooligan's sport played by gentlemen. Something like that. Either way, the level of respect players have for one another and refs is awesome since it really is a violent/dangerous game. There are a few exceptions, but it's fun when refs say, "This isnt soccer, you cant get away with that here." Football/soccer players are just rich brats. FIFA and the various leagues encourage it too.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#163

Post by mandevil » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

duncanawoods wrote: post #157

mandevil wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_le... The NFL, MLB, and the NBA are all higher revenue sports than the EPL. Even the NHL brings in more revenue than every other sports league than the big 3 North American sports + EPL- 30% more than La Liga or Bundesliga. So if revenues for sports without relegation are so much greater than the revenues for sports with relegation, why would it improve the sp…

EPL is higher if you normalise by population.

Whose population? The EPL makes so much money because it's a global sport, so why should I normalize by the population of the UK?

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#164

Post by fallingknife » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

ska wrote: post #141

rkangel wrote: post #106

This article presents a simplistic "UK football good, American football bad" viewpoint, but there some aspects to how the NFL is run that are desirable. Primarily here I'm talking about negative feedback. In the Premier League (as well as Formula 1, for example) there is positive feedback that keeps the top teams at the top. Being successful means that you make more money (whether directly through prize money, or ind…

And yet New England has been in half of the last 10 years superbowls. Is it really as effective as you say? Aren't there like a dozen teams that haven't won in 30 years? Does that feel different than a smaller market Premier League fan? I don't think I disagree with your basic point that feedback is important, but I don't think the NFL has it well solved either.

There are 16, so 50% have won in the last 30 years, which is actually a very good distribution. And that includes a lot of small market teams (11 by my non quantitative snap judgment)

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#165

Post by zimpenfish » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #142

Mordisquitos wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In essence Man City is Man City because they are not Bolton I fully agree with the spirit of your comment but, to be fair, Manchester United is in Trafford, which is as much "Manchester" as Bolton is...

That’s not even remotely geographically correct. And United’s first home wasn’t in Trafford.

> That’s not even remotely geographically correct.

Which bit is wrong? Old Trafford is in Trafford which is in Manchester. Bolton is in Greater Manchester which, ok, isn't what people would possibly understand by "Manchester" but it's still viable.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#166

Post by NoOneNew » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #159

NoOneNew wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

>They cant figure out how to deal with diving and playing for time I always find these complaints strange coming from American fans. "Playing for time" is hugely important and mainstream strategy in the NFL. Coaches will be criticized if they don't run the ball enough when they have the lead in the 4th quarter. Meanwhile flopping is hugely common in the NBA. You can just search Youtube for "LeBron flops"[1] for plent…

To be fair, American Football is a game based around playing for time. What's interesting, college games are a bit more faster paced, mostly because those kids have something to prove so they can get into the NFL draft. Either way, I dont like American football without friends, snacks and booze. Baseball on TV, I feel the same, in it for the party. Theyre slow sports in reality. Though, in person, at the stadium, baseball is awesome.

I dont watch basketball at all.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#167

Post by vidoc » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #126

rkangel wrote: post #106

This article presents a simplistic "UK football good, American football bad" viewpoint, but there some aspects to how the NFL is run that are desirable. Primarily here I'm talking about negative feedback. In the Premier League (as well as Formula 1, for example) there is positive feedback that keeps the top teams at the top. Being successful means that you make more money (whether directly through prize money, or ind…

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

> That and diving.

There is something even more painful to watch than soccer simulations: sports that encourage killing the watch like football, baseball and basketball.

At least in diving, a little bit of acting talent is involved.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#168

Post by beowulfey » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #159

NoOneNew wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

>They cant figure out how to deal with diving and playing for time I always find these complaints strange coming from American fans. "Playing for time" is hugely important and mainstream strategy in the NFL. Coaches will be criticized if they don't run the ball enough when they have the lead in the 4th quarter. Meanwhile flopping is hugely common in the NBA. You can just search Youtube for "LeBron flops"[1] for plent…

I think in the USA playing for time is considered acceptable and a good strategy so long as it isn't overdone. It's different in the NFL though, where there is an inbuilt limit to how much you can really delay. But anyway, you're right -- I don't think it's generally considered bad, at least not anytime I've ever watched sports with friends and colleagues.

Diving though; that's universally considered to be unquestionably lame. It's never cool.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#169

Post by rossitter » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

vidoc wrote: post #167

NoOneNew wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

> That and diving. There is something even more painful to watch than soccer simulations: sports that encourage killing the watch like football, baseball and basketball. At least in diving, a little bit of acting talent is involved.

There's no watch to kill in baseball. You have to get the other team out a set number of times.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#170

Post by slg » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #166

slg wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They cant figure out how to deal with diving and playing for time I always find these complaints strange coming from American fans. "Playing for time" is hugely important and mainstream strategy in the NFL. Coaches will be criticized if they don't run the ball enough when they have the lead in the 4th quarter. Meanwhile flopping is hugely common in the NBA. You can just search Youtube for "LeBron flops"[1] for plent…

To be fair, American Football is a game based around playing for time. What's interesting, college games are a bit more faster paced, mostly because those kids have something to prove so they can get into the NFL draft. Either way, I dont like American football without friends, snacks and booze. Baseball on TV, I feel the same, in it for the party. Theyre slow sports in reality. Though, in person, at the stadium, bas…

>college games are a bit more faster paced, mostly because those kids have something to prove so they can get into the NFL draft.

That isn't the reasoning at all. The NFL doesn't have guaranteed contracts, so in a very real sense the players in the NFL are playing more to stay in the NFL than players in college are playing to get into the NFL. Also some of the highest paced teams in college are the teams full of players with no hope of playing in the NFL.

The reason some college teams play faster than the NFL (and it isn't all teams) is because there is a wider talent distribution in college. It is possible to win games there by being faster and playing faster than your opponent. Talent is more evenly distributed in the NFL. You can just out athleticism your opponent.

Another factor is that both players and coaches spend more time strategizing in the NFL. It is harder to just run the same scheme every game without it being eventually exposed.