My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant • Hacker News Board

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#281

Post by jarek » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:39 PM UTC

rubashov wrote: post #193

davepage wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, here we have a philosophical issue: tribe or meritocracy. Considering the historically horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. Which means, open the borders. If some lazy spoiled Americans lose their jobs to better skilled immigrants, all the better. That's what this country is about.

> horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. May I attempt to translate?: Throw my weaker countrymen under the bus. I have no human loyalties to those born in my nation who share my culture. Their welfare is of no consequence compared to potentially profitable foreigners. I think your "tribalism vs meritocracy" line does get to the heart of the matter. Except I would substitute the term "nationalism" for t…

It might also be worthwhile to mention that the 20th century has seen a nice collection of wars and atrocities done by nation states upon other nations.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#282

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:42 PM UTC

dennisgorelik wrote: post #278

anonymous246 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my previous point. Patent cases pay for themselves too. But the federal govt. is so strapped for money that it takes money from these depts. And Congress is notorious for passing unfunded mandates. Unless you address specifics like this, I'm afraid what you are saying is just wishful thinking.

"Wishful thinking" is when you hope that government would process legal immigrants' cases faster if government spends some extra resources on prosecuting illegal immigrants.

[deleted]

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#283

Post by HowardRoark » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:45 PM UTC

nkassis wrote: post #244

mahyarm wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go apply with canada, you have a clean slate there and you can get a green card on arrival with all of your qualifications: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2686136 After 4 years (3 years + 1 year of waiting for the citizenship test, passport generation, etc) you can come back and work in the US under TN at the border. You can also travel to the USA by applying for a 5-10 year B visa and visit as you wish once you…

Or just stay in Canada. It's a nice place to live. It's very similar to living in the US. As a programmer you could easily find a job.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/tool/tool_06....

Can programmers even apply under the skilled category anymore? I thought Canada only wanted computer managers since 2009(?).

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#284

Post by jarek » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:46 PM UTC

lupatus wrote: post #167

jshen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be assuming that something is right because it is the law. I'm inclined to question that assumption. I could also make the usual snarky comment and say that by the letter of the "law" we owe native americans a whole bunch of land. Maybe even the land your house is on.

The Native Americans lost it fair-and-square through force of arms. Moreover, much of North America was unoccupied, unorganized territory open for colonization by Western Civilization. Whatever tribes were able to hold out are today richly compensated - see the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Indian Health Service.

So just to get this straight, you would have no probs if China were to declare war on the U.S. tomorrow, win, kill off people living in America, and settle it with their citizens?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#285

Post by knowtheory » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:57 PM UTC

neilk wrote: post #272

knowtheory wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Canada's population growth is almost entirely due to immigration (population growth by birthrate in Canada is flat or ever so slightly negative). Edit: actually the natural growth rate is every so slightly positive. Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Canada_by_year#Co...

Immigration to Canada in the 21st century is not the situation you had in the USA pre-1914. At Ellis Island, as long it was deemed that you weren't insane, diseased, or a criminal, and could support yourself, you could get US citizenship in an afternoon. Although Canada has the most liberal immigration policy of all industrialized countries today, it will still take an applicant years to become a Canadian.

Hey Neil,

I do not disagree on any of those counts, the fact still remains that impediments to immigration are not caused (either solely or entirely) by welfare states. And more to the point, they can have considerably more liberal policies than less progressive states.

So when i hear people attack socialized systems, especially in oblique manners such as this (rather than highlighting specific policies that need to change), my bullshit radar goes off.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#286

Post by jarek » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 5:10 PM UTC

iqster wrote: post #256

ojbyrne wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian living in the US, I think you need to mention the snow.

Indeed it snows :) Funny! But seriously, the cold in Toronto is as bad as New York. Also, programmer salaries aren't exactly the same. A top notch coder in SF Bay area or NYC makes x2-x6 than a Canadian. Apart from money, I felt that there were few hardcore jobs that would improve my skills. Nortel was an exception before it closed down. That said, Canada is a pretty nice place to live. Immigrants aren't expected to…

Once you factor in cost of living, the difference for top notch coders (any coders, really) is going to be less than 2x and nowhere near 6x.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#287

Post by akat » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 5:15 PM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #248

freshfunk wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay. With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to legal immigrants. The problem it creates is that there's enormous stress on those that are illegal. They live in the shadows and can be taken advantage of. My own personal experience was driving in LA and being rear-ended by someone who then fled the scene (mos…

The problem with your “cutting in line is bad” line is that people’s choice to immigrate without papers has almost nothing to do with “lines” or policies or lawbreaking, and everything to do with the much more powerfully compelling economic organization of the world (and particularly North America). 1) United States agriculture absolutely depends on a certain amount of unskilled labor to function, for which the Unite…

Anyone can do (almost) anything illegal and blame it on "Global economic order". Does it really justify the illegal actions?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#288

Post by woobar » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 5:16 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #240

tokenadult wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spouse of first-generation immigrant to the United States here. And back in the 1990s I used to be an immigration lawyer for a small law firm on the west coast. Yes, the personal story of Jose Antonio Vargas is rough on him personally, but a better basis for setting the policy of immigration in the United States would be the stories of the many people who patiently wait in line to be admitted to the United States thr…

In Europe it's a lot easier to immigrate in general. Especially as an EU citizen. And if your country is also a member of the Schengen space, you can just move around using only your ID. My uncle immigrated in Spain for instance; entered and worked illegally at first (since a Schengen visa was required of him, and he could find illegal work more easilly anyway), but forward 15 years later, and now he has full citizen…

One could argue that current Europe is a 'United States of Europe'. So no surprise here. In USA it is also easy to 'immigrate' from one state to another if you are a US citizen.

Immigrating to Europe from outside Shengen space is as hard as getting to US from outside.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#289

Post by jarek » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 5:30 PM UTC

rubashov wrote: post #196

anigbrowl wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did not downvote, but absolutely disagree. Ethnic nationalism has a bad track record, to put it mildly.

> Ethnic nationalism has a bad track record Pre 1940s Europe is a transnational jumble of overlapping ethnic groups. Result: war after war after war. Post 40s and 50s after millions of people relocate to their linguistic and ethnic homelands and coalesce into new nations carved out of empires: lasting peace. Last major war was in former Yugoslavia, which failed to get with the ethnic nationalist program. Hell, even B…

You conveniently left out the late 1930s and 1940s, in which a nation-state perpetuated ethnic war and genocide before being stopped primarily by two fairly transnational states.

Would you be interested in a summary of 20th century armed conflicts, classified by the type of states involved? There are a couple in Asia and Africa I'm thinking of.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#290

Post by akat » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 6:32 PM UTC

lupatus wrote: post #164

nick-dap wrote: post #51

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story. I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago. I'm 24 now. I also graduated from a "top" university -- like that matters. I guess my parents weren't smart enough to get a fake social security card for me back then, I wish they were. I've also been fighting for the Dream Act for what feels like an eternity.…

You are a criminal and not a "homebred American". You should stop punishing yourself and return to your home country. It sounds like you have the skills to be very successful there.

at least, get in the line.