Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming • Hacker News Board

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#291

Post by throwaway6734 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

volkl48 wrote: post #211

throwaway6734 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locals wouldn't get screwed if they advocated for better zoning policy and allowed more housing to be built. This doesn't happen because those same locals that are homeowners love the value of their house exploding upwards

This is a more complex problem than it is in many other regions of the country. For the most obvious - Once you're off a municipal water supply (which of course, has to have an adequate source of water in the region), available water resources/aquifers are often very limited and minimum lot sizes have to be large because the land can't support higher density housing. -------- If you build anything even approaching "n…

This is a great point.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#292

Post by Workaccount2 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #175

giantg2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would a small city not have to do that big city would? Or do you mean a small town. Also, what hobbies would have to be given up?

It is not fundamental difference between small vs big city. Options, people and culture are different in this city versus different city - no matter which one is larger. Say you liked boardgames with friends. The new city have different people, the play different games, you dont like either new games or new people. Say you liked swimming and the swimming pools in new city are too full or otherwise dont suit you. You…

You also have the issue of the wealth divide. Its gonna be very difficult to hang out with locals when your annual income is more than they have made in a decade. Jealously alone will tear things apart, nevermind the near complete lack of overlapping life experience.

So you end up with the wealthy newcomers only interacting with other wealthy newcomers. Essentially a new culture in a place that had an established culture for years before hand.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#293

Post by blunte » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #227

ghaff wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people assume you're either 200 miles from the nearest Walmart or you're in downtown Manhattan/a dense close-in suburb. Go 1-2 hours from pretty much every large city and you can be in pretty rural areas--although not necessarily a mountain town of course. I do like going into cities now and then but I really don't need or particularly want one on a day-to-day basis.

> people assume you're either 200 miles from the nearest Walmart or you're in downtown Manhattan/a dense close-in suburb. Go 1-2 hours from pretty much every large city and you can be in pretty rural areas This must be why "ban cars!" is so prominent on HN. Apparently people here have a hard time imagining a location where they can provide quality-of-life improving utility.

Where I live now, I'm 1-6 hours by train from Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris, and a bunch of other cool cities. Not having to drive to "go out" is awesome.

Giving up cars usually means getting good public transport. That's a trade I happily made.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#294

Post by nerdkid93 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #281

My wife and I traded living near a beach and lagoon in San Diego country for a small but nice house in a mountain tourist town (Sedona Arizona). That was back in 1998. Except for some time working as a contractor at Google in Mountain View and managing a deep learning team for Capital One in Urbana/Champaign IL, we have lived a quiet life in the mountains since 1998. One reason for my success in being happy here is t…

> deep learning team for Capital One

What!? Capital One has a deep learning team? As a long-time customer of theirs, I can't even begin to guess what that team might do for their set of products, except maybe to optimize their credit card offerings.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#295

Post by Loughla » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #273

Loughla wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing. The individual property gets fixed. New houses get built. But the community doesn't benefit. The 'new' folks do not integrate into the area. They don't shop local. They don't send their kids to the local schools (and in many cases use their money to legally fight with the district about funding because their kids go to private school). They don't really 'live' out here. They just happen to stay…

I know a lot of people who had to move away from rural areas to get tech jobs. I would guess that it wouldn't be so bad if it were those people moving back. Or just people who had a genuine interest in living there. Instead it sounds like it's mostly people who have always lived in the cities that have some idealized view of the country that doesn't actually match the local customs/culture, sort of like gentrificatio…

There is a huge push for school vouchers, with about half of our local school board being occupied by folks who have kids who attend the private schools in the closest urban area. These individuals want their property taxes to be given to them as a voucher to use where they please instead of straight to the schools from the state.

There are others who have taken a more direct approach and sue the local districts for 'access' complaints. They claim they should be able to benefit from extracurricular activities in their district (sports, test preparation, science clubs, that sort of thing), like home-school kids can; even though their kids go to private schools. The districts don't have the money to fight lawsuits.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#296

Post by franksvalli » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

pyinstallwoes wrote: post #207

j2bax wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What region are you currently in?

California - I like Big Bear for instance but not attached to West Coast at all. Also Big Bear doesn't have _too much acreage_ but maybe something to settle in on the meantime. It seems like there's various yellow flags on this region; most concerned with water availability over time.

I lived there for a bit, fire is another thing to watch out for. While I was there a huge fire got uncomfortably close. Check out http://socalmountains.com to get a preview of the local community there.

Gets crowded on weekends and holidays. There's definitely some antagonism towards the "flatlanders" - e.g. the people who don't live in the mountains, haha.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#297

Post by LordFast » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

consensusform wrote: post #275

bedhead wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year I moved from a top 3 city to a small mountain town in Colorado. In my experience, your hostility is extremely common in small towns that have big seasonal influxes. I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners and relatively newer full-time residents. The one constant is: "Everything was great until shortly after I relocated here and you people moved in." A week…

That sentiment isn't unique to small towns either. Residents of Austin, TX have been complaining that the city changed or got too crowded shortly after they moved in, whether that was a year ago or decades ago. People who moved to SF in 2010 complained about the people moving there in 2015. Same thing happens at a neighborhood or district level too. Everybody feels like they were the last person to move in while it w…

"Everyone who came before me is a sucker; everyone who came after me is a cheat."

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#298

Post by alistairSH » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #122

isaacimagine wrote: post #15

As someone who lived in a small city in the American Mountain West, the boom does have consequences. Sleepy farming towns are becoming endless suburbia, hiking up prices as developers spill over from the Lehi 'Silicon Slopes' area. Midway, for instance, a town on the Wasatch back situated in a location that feels similar to Switzerland, has gone from about 150 diaries to 2, as expanding housing developments buy out t…

You can always move to mountain towns in Appalachia. The population has been stagnate or shrinking over the past decades with the mills and mines shutting down.

Ssssshhhh, don't spill the beans. I need those towns to remain affordable for ~15-20 years, until I'm ready to cash-out my suburban home.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#299

Post by dcolkitt » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

almost_usual wrote: post #290

dcolkitt wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside is that while you’re “taking” a house in Colorado, you’re also “freeing up” a house in California. You’re only looking at the displaced resident being priced out. But there are many people who desperately want to move to coastal California and currently can’t because of housing costs. The migration is balanced by someone new being “priced in” to San Francisco or Los Angeles. Maybe even someone who wants…

Coastal California prices have gone up 20-30% in the past few months. These are people who were priced out of home buying there and renting, mountain towns are cheaper. Every IPO and stock vest causes home prices to go higher in the Bay Area, there’s been a lot lately.

My understanding is that rents in San Francisco are down 20%+. LA is not as large a drop, but still down.

While the cost of home ownership may be up (most likely as you identify due to the wealth effect of equity grants), the actual cost to live in coastal California is sharply down.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#300

Post by cwp » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

sakopov wrote: post #289

cwp wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I moved to SF because that's where the good jobs were. Now I can leave and keep my good job. Huzzah!

This seems like a good deal, but isn't your salary going to be adjusted for the area where you currently reside?

Yes, it was. I took a 15% cut. It's still a financial win, given the lower cost of living, lower taxes, and cheaper real estate. I'm finally able to buy a house.