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Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

economist.com

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Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#281

Post by mark_l_watson »

My wife and I traded living near a beach and lagoon in San Diego country for a small but nice house in a mountain tourist town (Sedona Arizona). That was back in 1998. Except for some time working as a contractor at Google in Mountain View and managing a deep learning team for Capital One in Urbana/Champaign IL, we have lived a quiet life in the mountains since 1998.

One reason for my success in being happy here is that I accept the 1 1/2 million tourists who flood through our town every year. I view them as good for our economy and go out of my way to offer advice on the hiking trails to people who are obviously visitors, easy to do since I like talking with people. A few of my friends are miserable because of the tourists, but they are just a fact of life.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#282

Post by mring33621 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #132
eysquared wrote: post #24

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

> I understand this is not for everyone and I understand the negative perception of 'outsiders' pushing the price up for locals, but at the end of the day I'm optimizing for my own quality of life. I'm sorry, is that supposed to be an excuse? I mean, on the whole, some displacement of locals isn't that big a tragedy, but "it was good for me, so fuck you" isn't exactly the best moral reasoning I've ever heard.

You need to understand that it's the 'locals' that are fighting (and losing) against the 'outsiders' that are actually saying "fuck you"

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#283

Post by rekoros »

dcolkitt wrote: post #124
extraAccount wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people grow up in an Urban environment, I don't really see any disadvantage to it. We get to meet a lot of people and there is always stuff to do. During COVID I am seeing a lot of talk about moving into the countryside with their children, as if their children are sheep which need a lot of open spaces in which to graze. But the will probably get bored and miss their friends, and probably force them to pack…

I agree that kids in an urban environment can be very rewarding. I disagree that the urban environment found in the Bay Area is conducive to kids. Visiting the local park is great. Visiting the local park when the walk is littered with human excrement and discarded needles, not so much. No parent in their right mind would ever go on the BART with a child.

I've taken my children on BART a few times, even dropped one of them (fell out of a stroller) down the stairs at Montgomery Station once.

It's fun for the kids - why not? - but I have no fond memories. I commuted via BART every day 2006-2012 (albeit just one stop - W Oakland to Embarcadero, and back), and the stuff I witnessed on a regular basis had me thinking "I'm so glad my children aren't here to see this."

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#284

Post by Workaccount2 »

a3KEaWOcZr wrote: post #248
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand this is not for everyone and I understand the negative perception of 'outsiders' pushing the price up for locals, but at the end of the day I'm optimizing for my own quality of life. I'm sorry, is that supposed to be an excuse? I mean, on the whole, some displacement of locals isn't that big a tragedy, but "it was good for me, so fuck you" isn't exactly the best moral reasoning I've ever heard.

For decades people from all over the country, many of these small towns moved to places like NY, Chicago, SF etc. and the respective suburbs in search for better jobs, opportunity etc. It didn't seem like it was a big concern then to anyone that the locals in these cities could be negatively affected by higher rents, home prices etc. Why is it different when the reverse happens? If its ok for a young person to leave…

>If its ok for a young person to leave their hometown, move to a city and call it home to make a better life without thinking about the locals, then it must be ok for a person with a small family living in a city to move to a smaller town and call it home to make a better life for his/her family.

The reason that theses two scenarios are not equivalent is so obvious I'm wondering whether or not I'm misinterpreting it.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#285

Post by gdubs »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #281

My wife and I traded living near a beach and lagoon in San Diego country for a small but nice house in a mountain tourist town (Sedona Arizona). That was back in 1998. Except for some time working as a contractor at Google in Mountain View and managing a deep learning team for Capital One in Urbana/Champaign IL, we have lived a quiet life in the mountains since 1998. One reason for my success in being happy here is t…

I’ve been one of those tourists — Sedona is a magical place. Also, the alpine stretch as you drive out towards the north has always stuck with me as one of the most incredible areas of the planet I’ve been to.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#286

Post by GavinMcG »

airhead969 wrote: post #198
ubermonkey wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Big cities are (and were pre-pandemic) only useful for conducting high-level economic activity due to the density of connectedness and potential for rapid wealth accumulation, but in general, they often tend to be terrible places overall" yeah, seriously "citation needed" here. Cities offer a LOT of things not usually found in rural areas. Try explaining to my trans sister about how cities are bad, and that she shou…

Not everything ambiguous qualitative and experiential in life can be quantified with a science experiment or a research paper. Get over it, please. :) > Cities offer ... Yes, I don't deny this. Sister: Anecdotal example, sorry None of this negates my impression and opinion which is a valid expression but not a universal fact up for debate. It is not a universal fact anyone must agree with or hold. In fact, it's arrog…

> it's arrogant to criticize or tell someone what their opinions and experiences should be.

So were you not telling people what their experiences should be when you said "Big cities...tend to be terrible places overall...and people should escape to more tranquil and mentally-healthy places"?

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#287

Post by mring33621 »

reducesuffering wrote: post #50
garren wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that doesn’t even touch on the new year-round fire season normal we have to contend with. Last year was crazy and this year is supposed to be as bad or worse. Every 3rd or 4th pine tree in the hills is beetle kill. A lot of people are looking to move into mountain communities that are largely water stressed already. Adding more people, with less water, and higher fire danger and it’s going to get ugly.

Where can one find areas that are most water-abundant and don't run into the water scarcity issues?

Michigan!

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#288

Post by [deleted] »

consensusform wrote: post #275
bedhead wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year I moved from a top 3 city to a small mountain town in Colorado. In my experience, your hostility is extremely common in small towns that have big seasonal influxes. I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners and relatively newer full-time residents. The one constant is: "Everything was great until shortly after I relocated here and you people moved in." A week…

That sentiment isn't unique to small towns either. Residents of Austin, TX have been complaining that the city changed or got too crowded shortly after they moved in, whether that was a year ago or decades ago. People who moved to SF in 2010 complained about the people moving there in 2015. Same thing happens at a neighborhood or district level too. Everybody feels like they were the last person to move in while it w…

[deleted]

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#289

Post by sakopov »

cwp wrote: post #43
eysquared wrote: post #24

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

Yup. I moved to SF because that's where the good jobs were. Now I can leave and keep my good job. Huzzah!

This seems like a good deal, but isn't your salary going to be adjusted for the area where you currently reside?

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#290

Post by almost_usual »

dcolkitt wrote: post #134
iJohnDoe wrote: post #4

Great, you can work from. So you take your California money to middle of nowhere and buy a home for cheap. Renovate it and now it’s awesome. However, that local, who isn’t making California money, that is working a local job and making local money and is hoping to move up in housing for their family is priced out because housing pricing has doubled or even tripled. People that wanted to retire to rural or remote area…

The flipside is that while you’re “taking” a house in Colorado, you’re also “freeing up” a house in California. You’re only looking at the displaced resident being priced out. But there are many people who desperately want to move to coastal California and currently can’t because of housing costs. The migration is balanced by someone new being “priced in” to San Francisco or Los Angeles. Maybe even someone who wants…

Coastal California prices have gone up 20-30% in the past few months. These are people who were priced out of home buying there and renting, mountain towns are cheaper.

Every IPO and stock vest causes home prices to go higher in the Bay Area, there’s been a lot lately.

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