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Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

economist.com

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Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#191

Post by throwaway6734 »

vailprogrammer wrote: post #172
throwaway6734 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locals wouldn't get screwed if they advocated for better zoning policy and allowed more housing to be built. This doesn't happen because those same locals that are homeowners love the value of their house exploding upwards

I agree with this sentiment in cities, however, I believe that this approach in the mountains would result in skyscrapers being built in areas of natural beauty, and be harmful to all of the wildlife that live there. The Eagle (Vail) Valley is relatively small to begin with.

Based.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#192

Post by throwaway6734 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #149
throwaway6734 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locals wouldn't get screwed if they advocated for better zoning policy and allowed more housing to be built. This doesn't happen because those same locals that are homeowners love the value of their house exploding upwards

Honestly, no. Just because you have a hammer does not mean that every problem is a nail. Complete zoning and policy failure is a uniquely California problem. Nobody has a structural, and likely unconstitutional inequity in taxation that California does. Some rando Bay Area suburb being more expensive than Manhattan is not the same problem.

Zoning failures are widespread throughout the country. If more people want to live somewhere, those regions should make it as easy as possible to develop housing and incentivize it

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#194

Post by airhead969 »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #186
airhead969 wrote: post #179

I went through many of them moving from Chico CA area in a grand US west/southwest roadtrip moving to Austin TX to escape climate change fires/power outages (ironically), increasing taxes and housing prices, and a decline in general happiness. I didn't see any obvious signs of this. I can recommend not moving anywhere near Greely CO where cattle are slaughtered by the thousands. It smells very bad. Also, driving in W…

While I share your sentiments, I don't think it's fair to deride cities as "terrible places overall". Many of us prefer the quiet of rural life, but many others find that quiet to be stifling and want the busy hustle-bustle of a big city. To each their own.

Big cities are "terrible" long-term, especially as viewed by most average people who lack the skills, connections, and abilities to utilize them and as they get older and less able to capitalize on them. Younger, smarter people tend to gravitate towards them as they are able to make more effective use of cities with better goals, tactics, self-discipline, sociopolitical navigation, and relationships.

YMMV.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#195

Post by vailprogrammer »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #191
vailprogrammer wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this sentiment in cities, however, I believe that this approach in the mountains would result in skyscrapers being built in areas of natural beauty, and be harmful to all of the wildlife that live there. The Eagle (Vail) Valley is relatively small to begin with.

Based.

Not sure what you mean.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#196

Post by ajmurmann »

AlanSE wrote: post #174
rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #79

Are we still ignoring the ecological collapse that is caused by urban sprawl? We *must* increase the density of our cities. If you believe that the climate crisis is a problem and a big one, then you could be for a rude awakening as most experts now consider the collapse in biodiversity to have far bigger impacts on human lives and living conditions than climate change[0]. The only reason why there are fewer headline…

I'm extremely sympathetic to this view. Habitat destruction is the #1 or #2 way we're screwing over the planet. However, this looks like an area where environmentalists risk getting themselves into trouble. Global warming is a defined and solvable task, but the messaging keeps changing to something more like an open-ended commitment. That has huge risks for the public to tune it out, and perhaps further procrastinate…

> I kind of don't feel like we can afford to. The housing price increases since 2020 have an atrocious human cost. These rising costs of living are not sustainable. There are some good (tech) jobs that compensate sufficiently for this type of development to work... but no where near enough. On a macroeconomics sense, I'm inclined to think it just doesn't work at all.

The costs are rising because there is demand to move to cities, but we aren't increasing density. In most cities zoning and arduous permit processes are making building downright impossible. The lack of real density is driving the cost problem

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#197

Post by base698 »

tylerjl wrote: post #57

For those outside of these bubbles, it’s almost unbelievable how much the housing market has completely exploded the last two years. My family is squarely in this situation - bought our home a few years ago in an extremely fast - growing area, and watched prices climb to levels that we didn’t believe at first. Imagine purchasing a home in 2019 for $500k and selling it today for $1.2M. That’s the reality in some of th…

> “Speculation on the stock exchange has spread to all ranks of the population and shares rise like air balloons to limitless heights. … My banker congratulates me on every new rise, but he does not dispel the secret uneasiness which my growing wealth arouses in me … it already amounts to millions.”

-- "When Money Dies"

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#198

Post by airhead969 »

ubermonkey wrote: post #189
airhead969 wrote: post #179

I went through many of them moving from Chico CA area in a grand US west/southwest roadtrip moving to Austin TX to escape climate change fires/power outages (ironically), increasing taxes and housing prices, and a decline in general happiness. I didn't see any obvious signs of this. I can recommend not moving anywhere near Greely CO where cattle are slaughtered by the thousands. It smells very bad. Also, driving in W…

"Big cities are (and were pre-pandemic) only useful for conducting high-level economic activity due to the density of connectedness and potential for rapid wealth accumulation, but in general, they often tend to be terrible places overall" yeah, seriously "citation needed" here. Cities offer a LOT of things not usually found in rural areas. Try explaining to my trans sister about how cities are bad, and that she shou…

Not everything ambiguous qualitative and experiential in life can be quantified with a science experiment or a research paper. Get over it, please. :)

> Cities offer ...

Yes, I don't deny this.

Sister: Anecdotal example, sorry

None of this negates my impression and opinion which is a valid expression but not a universal fact up for debate. It is not a universal fact anyone must agree with or hold. In fact, it's arrogant to criticize or tell someone what their opinions and experiences should be.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#199

Post by calvano915 »

bumby wrote: post #182
ghaff wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't get a lot of the comments on this thread. So, say I can work remote or retire and live basically anywhere I want. Is the suggestion that I have some moral obligation to live somewhere that's already expensive?

I think the sentiment is about how it can create perverse incentives that may be good for a small subset but bad for the population in the aggregate. I think it’s about a host of different systemic issues beyond just where one person decides to live. I.e., income inequality, housing policy, class disparities etc. It just manifests itself in the problems raised in the article. Edit: The Indicator recently had an inter…

And destroys many aspects that made moving appealing in the first place.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#200

Post by jtlisi »

drdeadringer wrote: post #155
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

> Cape Cod MA I used to vacation there. As one of those clueless people who can't buy marijuana in a legal state, I am equally clueless on the signs of terrible addiction if I drove through Cape Cod, MA today. I'm not sure what makes me more sad -- the existence, or my incapability to notice the existence.

Check out this excellent HBO documentary on the topic. https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/heroin-cape-cod-usa
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