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Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

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Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#51

Post by ethbr0 »

someonehere wrote: post #43
game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

Do you even know how businesses are supposed to operate in China if they’re from the outside? My understanding from a security friend is there are all these hurdles and the Chinese government wants access to networks and source code for anything that’s operating within the country. Also, there have been plenty of stories on HN where American businesses are ripped off by China knockoffs and there’s no way to really su…

You also described America, circa-1800s.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#53

Post by kube-system »

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

I agree that Huawei is not the worst issue to criticize China on.

But, you don't need "proof" of a spying to recognize that it's high risk to put someone in a high-trust role if they are beholden to competing interests. The competing interests themselves are enough to establish the existence of risk.

You're right that many people who outsourced to China previously wrote off all these risks as unimportant and later cried foul when their IP was stolen... this discussion is 20 years too late, and people still think the evidence isn't strong enough.

If you think that Chinese companies stealing your widget design is bad, wait until they put sanctions on your countries critical infrastructure's IT vendors. I'm sure Taiwan isn't waiting around for any "proof" of Chinese spying. When the proof comes it'll be too late.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#54

Post by treve »

londons_explore wrote: post #15

I "could have" wiretapped KPN when I worked in the networks department. Without any evidence that any wiretaps actually occurred, I'm afraid this is just fearmongering...

For a potential security breach at this level, if access was possible, and no records exists if it happened, you operate under the assumption there was a breach.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#55

Post by zozin »

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

Yes, it's all just a big conspiracy at the highest levels, lol.

What really happened is that western countries and corporations didn't care _enough_ about China because China wasn't that powerful/influential. Now that China is powerful/influential, the era of just signing on the dotted line or not pushing back is over.

Banning Huawei _is_ competing. See Lotte Mart's fate in China.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#56

Post by simion314 »

hn8788 wrote: post #39
simion314 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but must probably this is just part of the anti-China propaganda , I think it started with the false accusations from Bloomberg... so I expect that any Huawei related news is false until some actual evidence is presented to the police or something.

Huawei doesn't really deserve the benefit of the doubt, a lot of their early success was due to hacking Cisco and Nortel then building competing products based on stolen information, all while the Chinese government was restricting non-Chinese telecom vendors from operating in the country.

I personally don't like to be manipulated by media. So for this case I am just saying be aware not to be a tool/pawn is some big player's game, I suggest you either do more digging , wait for some real evidence - but downvote if the mention of the Bloomberg fake article or innocent until proven guilty is a something wrong that needs to be hidden.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#57

Post by geofft »

kube-system wrote: post #37
geofft wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't trust any provider under the jurisdiction of an anti-liberty nation-state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A Not sure why Huawei is unique here.

The US and the Netherlands are both allied members of NATO. That's why Huawei is a different story.

Are you saying it's worse for China to (be granted sufficient access by the Netherlands that, in theory, if they wished to abuse that access, they could) spy on communications in the Netherlands than for the US to spy on communications in the US?

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#58

Post by tpmx »

ethbr0 wrote: post #51
someonehere wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you even know how businesses are supposed to operate in China if they’re from the outside? My understanding from a security friend is there are all these hurdles and the Chinese government wants access to networks and source code for anything that’s operating within the country. Also, there have been plenty of stories on HN where American businesses are ripped off by China knockoffs and there’s no way to really su…

You also described America, circa-1800s.

We're living now, not in the 1800s. That may be historically interesting, but not that much interesting beyond that. It's not about who's "good" and who's "evil", now or then.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#60

Post by pydry »

emodendroket wrote: post #17
ajross wrote: post #5

The spin on this situation is dumb. What it amounts to is that KPN hired Huawei on a contract basis to administer its equipment, and as a result those contract administrators had... administrator privileges on the Huawei equipment. Now, obviously telco equipment can be used for spying, but there's absolutely no allegation of wrongdoing here at all. If there is any finger to point, it's at KPN for hiring an untrusted…

I feel we need to read all these stories with a skeptical eye because, frankly, Huawei's become a political football, and there is a very strong motivation to cast events in the most unfavorable light possible by officials who are working backwards from the conclusion. Perhaps they do have some kind of spying master plan but I have found a lot of the fanfare for these stories hasn't held up to scrutiny.

Reminds me a bit of the Bloomberg saga also, where theoretical compromises were somehow "confused" for real ones when a journalist talked to a spook: https://9to5mac.com/2021/02/15/bloomberg-spy-chip-2/
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