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My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

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Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#71

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story. I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago. I'm 24 now. I also graduated from a "top" university -- like that matters. I guess my parents weren't smart enough to get a fake social security card for me back then, I wish they were. I've also been fighting for the Dream Act for what feels like an eternity.…

Trust me, there's nobody on this board that is more sympathetic than I am. I am 110% behind you with the DREAM act, and my money has gone to Immigration Equality which has lobbied for this issue. (For different reasons, but suffice to say I'm an ally.)

There's one simple problem with changing immigration, and that's the system is working as intended. Farm workers can't unionize nearly as easily if they are undocumented, and undocumented workers don't have to be paid standard wages. In fact, they can explicitly be paid substandard wages and there is no way to complain. Your parents, most likely.

Undocumented workers lower unskilled work wages and working conditions far past what a documented system would. Further, as workers age out of the ability to do backbreaking farm work, they have no legal protections on which to rely, and can be thrown back out more easily. The DREAM act, however, brings people into the system with legal protections, people who can't easily be exploited in the same way their parents are. Your parents, that is.

And that's why we face an uphill battle with the DREAM act. It sounds conspiratorial, and nobody would explicitly admit this; sometimes, we get to status quo through unintended consequences, but people build their businesses on unintended consequences, and change isn't something they take easily, especially when it impacts their bottom line.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#72

I have no beef with this guy who was basically forced into breaking the law before he could have responsibility for his actions. But overall I just feel that the compassion about immigration is misplaced. I don't understand why all the pro-immigration people say "look at these poor undocumented immigrants -- we should make life better for them." I think the people we should have compassion for are the people who are…

Spouse of first-generation immigrant to the United States here. And back in the 1990s I used to be an immigration lawyer for a small law firm on the west coast. Yes, the personal story of Jose Antonio Vargas is rough on him personally, but a better basis for setting the policy of immigration in the United States would be the stories of the many people who patiently wait in line to be admitted to the United States thr…

the usa is a big country. if it has more immigrants it also has more wealth and more resources.

the statistics for number of new citizens per capita remove that bias. and then the USA ranks #26. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_net_mig_percap-immigra...

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#73

I have no beef with this guy who was basically forced into breaking the law before he could have responsibility for his actions. But overall I just feel that the compassion about immigration is misplaced. I don't understand why all the pro-immigration people say "look at these poor undocumented immigrants -- we should make life better for them." I think the people we should have compassion for are the people who are…

EXACTLY!!! There are so many people who are trying to come and contribute to the US society through legal means. They run into all kinds of obstacles and barriers. Meanwhile it's OK to get a citizenship through fake passports?

I just find it weird that everyone regards becoming a citizen by birth as so much fairer than becoming a citizen by sneaking in.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#74
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What years of criminally fraudlent behavior? He was brought into the country at age 12. Legally, he wasn't even capable of committing fraud because he hadn't reached the age of criminal responsibility. You can't even hold someone under the age of 18 to a contract, which is why most companies require an adult co-signer for any minor who wants to enter into one.

True. But, he was not a minor or forced against his will when he decided to check the citizen box on the I-9, or when he decided to pursue a writing career in New York instead of Manilla, or every time he decided as an adult to stay in the USA while knowing he was here illegally.

I suppose if you suddenly were to find out that you were actually illegally present in the U.S., you'd be a good, law-abiding noncitizen and cheerfully go back to the country you don't know?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#75
post #45
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America remains the most meritocratic country in the world This needs a citation. America-is-great chest pounding aside, the only reputable reference I remember seeing about this was from the Economist, who claimed that the correlation between your wealth and that of your parents is stronger in the US than in many European countries. So it seems that, at least measured in that way, the US is not a particularly good m…

That would not be strong refuting evidence. Given both genetics and environment factors (smart successful parents have more to teach, perhaps), I would expect successful children from successful parents. On the other hand, in a society where success were arbitrary, I would expect high incoherence between parent and child success. I suppose by "anyone can make it" we could literally mean, "irrespective of your abiliti…

Given both genetics and environment factors

The genetics you can't avoid, but the point of a true meritocracy is that you don't have the environmental factors.

I suppose by "anyone can make it" we could literally mean, "irrespective of your abilities anyone can make it"

No, that's not what it means. It means that if you have the competence to suceed, society won't hold you back. Environmental factors are all about lifting some people, and holding others back via society.

Another way to put this, if Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were raised in Watts, what are the chances they'd resemble the ppl they are now? 50%? .01%?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#76
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What years of criminally fraudlent behavior? He was brought into the country at age 12. Legally, he wasn't even capable of committing fraud because he hadn't reached the age of criminal responsibility. You can't even hold someone under the age of 18 to a contract, which is why most companies require an adult co-signer for any minor who wants to enter into one.

True. But, he was not a minor or forced against his will when he decided to check the citizen box on the I-9, or when he decided to pursue a writing career in New York instead of Manilla, or every time he decided as an adult to stay in the USA while knowing he was here illegally.

That is illegal, I agree. But while I wouldn't do that, I don't feel able to condemn him for dealing with a situation not of his own making. The government does not offer any procedure for a person in his position to regularize their legal status (eg do XYZ and pay a fine in restitution, which will allow you to apply for permanent residency on the same basis as a new visitor). Absent a way to live legally, he has little other choice.

The immigration laws in this country were practically constructed to create this exact situation, and the same politicians who voted these draconian laws onto the books have persistently underfunded and frustrated the very systems designed to help enforce them, like entry-exit databases and the like.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#77
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point at which law becomes a hinderance and not help is when it gets changed or broken. Basically, all you are suggesting is: go find a "citizen" to trap in matrimony in order to be a legal immigrant? The matrimony route is especially relevant, since in the US it is the one of the faster means to obtaining citizenship compared to other methods immigrate legally. Here is the reference: http://reason.com/assets/db/…

One of the fallacies about immigration is that anybody can become a permanent resident by marrying a citizen. This path to permanent residency was basically choked off in the 1980s by requiring that the newlywed couple leave the country for a few years before they're allowed to come back to the US to live, and even then, it's not certain that the government will let it happen. This means that if I happen to fall in l…

Huh? "Anybody" (i.e. excluding terrorists, nazis, communists, HIV-positives, and other comparatively small segments of the population) can become a US permanent resident by marrying a US citizen unless they are present in the US illegally. Then the case is more complicated, but in many cases you are still eligible.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#78
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard Canada is changing it's official slogan: "We're like America, but with moose."

"We're like America, but with gays and healthcare and poutine and a thirst for hockey only blood can quench."

a thirst for hockey only blood can quench

Yeah, we saw that one in Vancouver recently...

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#79
post #62
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would not be strong refuting evidence. Given both genetics and environment factors (smart successful parents have more to teach, perhaps), I would expect successful children from successful parents. On the other hand, in a society where success were arbitrary, I would expect high incoherence between parent and child success. I suppose by "anyone can make it" we could literally mean, "irrespective of your abiliti…

Given both genetics and environment factors ... I would expect successful children from successful parents. This is an assertion which, conveniently enough for those on the top, is entirely indistinguishable from a class society. It could be that you are right and that all the low-wage workers in the U.S. are low-wage because they are just plain dumb and not at all because they never had any of the opportunities grow…

Here's the relevant OECD article http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf

tl;dr: there are big differences between countries in the impact of parental education and earnings on the education and earnings of their kids. Parental success is a very strong determiner of both in the U.S., but much less so in, say, Canada and Finland (both of which are among the top four best-scoring countries on the OECD's Programme for International Student Assessment).

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#80

I have no beef with this guy who was basically forced into breaking the law before he could have responsibility for his actions. But overall I just feel that the compassion about immigration is misplaced. I don't understand why all the pro-immigration people say "look at these poor undocumented immigrants -- we should make life better for them." I think the people we should have compassion for are the people who are…

How is living in limbo for a decade, with literally no single piece of paper identifying you as a human being is "cutting in line?" And why can't we tackle these problems at the same time? Why can't we even tackle these problems _one_ at a time? The Dream Act has been under review since 2001. It is a bill that can be voted on and passed in literally two days. Why not? ... I'll answer. Our impotent Congress, two year…

You're blaming the laws of the country you want to recognize you instead of your parents who did not recognize the laws of the country they smuggled you into.
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