Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit • Hacker News Board

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#601

Post by FireBeyond » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #504

barry-cotter wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to name any category of professional where working over 40 hours a week isn’t quite normal. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors. It sure looks like people who work more than 40 hours a week on average do better than those who don’t. This is not a claim about what I wish was true, but about what actually seems to be true. The actual research on this is scarce to the point of non-existence. It may actuall…

Medical error is apparently the third-leading cause of death in the United States (see https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading... ). It certainly seems plausible that our culture of overworking doctors contributes to that significantly.

Not just doctors. EMTs will regularly work, 24, 36, 48 hours straight. I know EMTs whose timecards will regularly show 350 hours worked a month.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#602

Post by avisser » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

enkid wrote: post #134

smitty1e wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentives happen because they are empirically effective. I would contend that the issue is less the content of the incentives but rather the perception of fairness. If everyone is aware how the bonuses work and feels their 'fair' share is obtained, then it just becomes another part of the calculus. I speculate as a non-manager that bonuses are a good way (in the federal contracting realm, from the company perspectiv…

From what I have read, monetary incentives are only effective in specific circumstances. If used the wrong, it can even decrease performance.

Full-throated agreement. I'm actively interviewing elsewhere.

The $600 I got in my employers recent "equity event" felt like a slap in the face for 4 years of service.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#603

Post by Izikiel43 » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

whack wrote: post #94

I see a lot of comments bemoaning performance-based bonuses, but consider the following: > I remember being in shouting matches with our signal integrity team about among other things, how many capacitors we needed. These tiny devices evened out the power of the system, but they wanted far too many to be added to allow the design cheap and easy to build > Meanwhile I was waking up at 4AM on most days, in full-stress-…

Sounds like you read Skin in the game :P https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075HYVP7C/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#604

Post by ArnoVW » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

Excellent read, but not only for the bonus part. If anyone else enjoyed it for the EE / computer engineering part, I recomment The Soul of a New Machine, by Tracy Kidder.

He followed, in a sort of embedded way, a team of Data General computer engineers in the late 70's, as they went through a death march to produce a 32-bit micro. Sort of like this blog post, but the book got a pullitzer.

http://www.ancientgeek.org.uk/ed/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine.p...

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#605

Post by rualca » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

alisonkisk wrote: post #374

rualca wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feel free to name any category of professional where working over 40 hours a week isn’t quite normal. YMMV but the only time I ever experienced the myth that "working over 40 hours a week is the norm" was when I started working at a US-based company. And the only reason unpaid overtime was the norm was that managers, specially skip-level management, did a piss-poor job establishing sane goals based on realistic tim…

Yes, many places are willing to have lower productivity in exchange for higher quality of life. The US has a different culture and has most economically dominant companies.

> The US has a different culture and has most economically dominant companies.

The US's post-WW2 dominance doesn't explain why layers of lower management from the US stationed abroad insist in scheduling 3 weeks worth of work into 1 week in spite of being fully aware of how long the task takes, and afterwards boast to their leadership that their non-US teams outperformed US-based teams by a long shot while leaving out that team some non-US developers had to pull consecutive all-nighters to pull it off.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#606

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

praptak wrote: post #349

im3w1l wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the curse of 95% reliability. People will rely on it even though they shouldn't. It's better if it's only like 66% reliable.

We know how to deal with this in the technical domain - we break things on purpose in a controlled way so that people don't rely on an SLO that is there by mere chance. Maybe companies should do "bonus tolerance breaks" for the same purpose.

The right way implement this is to tie a sizable chunk of the quarterly bonus to an ambitious company-wide goal that fails 30% of the time. If the company is hitting the bonusable goal 95% of the time, the bar is probably too low.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#607

Post by dang » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

taeric wrote: post #26

This is literally a plot point in Christmas Vacation. Is also why I think it is silly for startups to provide too many perks. It sets obvious precedent and will upset more folks when you stop. Find ways to invest in the company so that success is it's own perk. If the company truly has more, work that into raises where you clearly tie the income to the success of the company.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26848549 to make the thread less top-heavy.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#608

Post by kergonath » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #502

kergonath wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it makes it easier to stay motivated to keep working. Of course, at the end of the day you still need enough to pay the bills. You still have a better, healthier, less stressful life than if you feel you are being exploited or not recognised.

> But it makes it easier to stay motivated to keep working. To... keep working... at your underpaid job?

There was no mention of the job being underpaid, was there?

Then, if your definition of “underpaid” is “lower salary than one could get elsewhere”, well, we are all underpaid. But it matters only if your salary is not enough to cover your lifestyle. Bearing that in mind, I’d rather be paid less to work in a nice working environment than better paid in a stressful professional nightmare. I’ve done my share of nightmares already.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#609

Post by dang » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #358

foobazzy wrote: post #353

At a certain multinational company that Anon(a close friend) is currently employed at had this way of distributing bonuses when the pandemic hit. Context: the company is chasing a $100mn y-o-y growth at this point. - All employees in the US offices get a hefty bonus for the profits they contributed to - All employees in the India office were to not receive bonuses/increments because we wanted to cut costs (not to for…

That's completely normal and does not only apply to India but all other offshore centers like Eastern Europe or the Philippines. You guys are a cost centre.

> You guys are a cost centre

In most contexts this would be more open to interpretation, but since (a) I just asked you to stop posting nationalistic putdowns (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26803989, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26809750), and (b) you've been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly and egregiously, I've banned this account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#610

Post by otachack » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

xref wrote: post #223

Everyone is focusing on the bonus part of the story but man, I really enjoyed the computing history about working inside DEC in those days. Anyone got other good computing history books/stories to recommend? I really enjoyed Masters of Doom and Hard Drive (about old-testament Gates, not new-dove Gates)

On The Metal podcast is amazing as well!