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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#561

Post by throwbigdata »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #560

I have literally never received a bonus that was present on an offer. Not that I'm a terrible employee they have invariably been cancelled or otherwise unreachably cancelled before I received a penny. Sometimes it was a full cancellation, sometimes it was a change in the language that would tie bonuses to unreachable revenue goals (very difficult needle to move as an engineer, at least in the 1yr time scale). I have…

Wow. I’ve seen almost the exact opposite. In my 30 year career almost all bonuses were met or exceeded and paid.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#562

Post by Ma8ee »

barry-cotter wrote: post #446
Ma8ee wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That study is of manual labour. Why do you think it says anything about knowledge work?

Because manual workers and knowledge workers get mentally weary in the same way and make mistakes in the same way, using their brains. Your muscles are perfectly capable of going longer. Your attention span, working intelligence and executive function are going to get messed up whether you’re putting 60 hours into putting the right amount of powder into every container or checking the Excel formulas are all correct.…

Ok, there’s just so many facts contrary to all normal experiences, so I’d like to see some sources. For example, I can easily work twelve hours per day while painting the facades of my home, without being mentally fatigued, only bored. But my body is surely sore after climbing up and down stairs all day. On the other hand, I’m hardly capable of doing six hours of really focused mental work per day.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#563

Post by maerF0x0 »

andrepd wrote: post #458
thedrbrian wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peter Gibbons: You see, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't even care. >Bob Porter: Don't- don't care? >Peter Gibbons: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? Before I started working at MASSIVE CORP I thought Office Space was a comedy.....

A co-operative model of ownership would solve that problem. Then if the company succeeds, the workers see the rewards.

are you, or anyone here, aware of a co-operative modeled SV style startup? I think 10yr (or 20 if that's possible) options is a good step towards that model so that you get back compensated for your contributions regardless of how long the investors resist IPO

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#566

Post by maerF0x0 »

drfuchs wrote: post #246
alasdair_ wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are also taking FAR longer to exit/IPO than they did back in the day and most companies still have a 90 day limit on ISOs. How many super early employees are able to hang on for a decade until IPO, or have the cash to exercise their options before they leave?

Super-early employee here. Pay for your options your first day of employment. They should be inexpensive; and your employer should be willing to give you a signing bonus to cover it (after all, the money just goes right back to them). Then when you leave, you get to keep all vested shares with no tax consequence, no need to pony up any cash, and no need to sell right away. Worked out great for me.

> They should be inexpensive; and your employer should be willing to give you a signing bonus to cover it (after all, the money just goes right back to them).

The first part of this can be false. If you're 1/2 way to billions IPO then your options can easily be a year or more of salary to exercise.

About the second part if the company gives you that as a signing bonus you're still on the hook to the IRS for the bonus so now you're 10s of 10000s deep on an illiquid position.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#567

Post by maerF0x0 »

alasdair_ wrote: post #546
dmarlow wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the way for companies to do right by the first few employees (and have a longer than 90 exercise window when leaving). I know a super early employee who left and had to take a loan to exercise and pay taxes. It's kind of sad to think about it.

I currently have a six figure tax bill because of exactly this issue. And I can’t sell the shares to anyone because transfer is forbidden.

> And I can’t sell the shares to anyone because transfer is forbidden.

IMO this should be illegal. It's your property and they should not be allowed to bar it's sale.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#568

Post by zepto »

icedchai wrote: post #524
zepto wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays, stock options given to employees often end up being worth nothing, even on a successful exit. This seems unlikely. Exits and IPOs have much greater valuations now than they did ‘back in the day’ so far more early employees end up with a significant infusion of cash.

You need to consider that a very, very small percentage of companies have IPOs. Many "successful" exits are actually acqui-hires, where a larger company acquires a dead or dying company for its talent. Often the product from that company is immediately shutdown, or at least shelved and no longer actively developed. Other "successful" exits pay some percentage back to the recent preferred shareholders. Earlier investo…

Sure - I’m just suggesting that it wasn’t better in some mythical past.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#569

Post by zepto »

goatinaboat wrote: post #420
zepto wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays, stock options given to employees often end up being worth nothing, even on a successful exit. This seems unlikely. Exits and IPOs have much greater valuations now than they did ‘back in the day’ so far more early employees end up with a significant infusion of cash.

far more early employees end up with a significant infusion of cash One word: dilution

Dilution is not new.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#570

Post by zepto »

dhosek wrote: post #481
zepto wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays, stock options given to employees often end up being worth nothing, even on a successful exit. This seems unlikely. Exits and IPOs have much greater valuations now than they did ‘back in the day’ so far more early employees end up with a significant infusion of cash.

In my 30 year career, I have never had a stock option worth a single penny. When I have someone talk up options as part of a compensation package, I tell them that options are nice, but my experience is that they have had no value in my past and that's the value that I'll assign them in the present and the future.

I’m with you on this. I just don’t think it was better in the past.
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