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China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

justsecurity.org

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Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#41

Post by throwaway3699 »

jowsie wrote: post #12
1cvmask wrote: post #2

This is a hilarious scaremongering article written for those who are clueless. No surprise as it turns out it is from the comically named neocon outfit Foundation for the Defense of Democracies which is the most bellicose warmongering think tank in DC. They never met a poor third world country that they didn’t want bombed. As for 6G the reason we have no leadership is that Lucent was run into the ground by a mindset…

> We forced the world after 9/11 to block anonymous Internet. You cannot get Internet anywhere without ID. You used to be able to get prepaid SIM cards in most countries till we put pressure on them. In the UK at least a pre paid sim is 99p if you buy it from a shop, you can pay with cash and there's no registration procedure. I doubt we're the only country in the world that works like this.

Even when I signed up for DSL in the UK, they didn't ask for personal details that could be verified. Didn't need a credit check either. I'm sure somebody there could make the connection to me but it's not like I needed to show any kind of identification.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#42

Post by varispeed »

It's becoming clear that their values are completely different from the west. Unfortunately the problem is that consumers here love low prices, but they also love employment rights, social security, free healthcare and other signs of an advanced civilisation - which costs money. The hypocrisy of the society is that they don't care if the product they buy was made in a country that don't respect human rights and was probably made by forced labour or children. As long as they don't see the exploitation, then it does not bother them.

Unfortunately, it is not possible to create a campaign that would show consumers how they are condoning human rights abuse by buying these products, because big corporations would have to lose a big stream of money.

I would love to see the law changed, so that companies would have to print country of origin of the product, and additional information kind of when you buy eggs, you can see if it is from free range hens or caged. So it should be mandatory to write if product was made using forced labour, children or low paid workers.

Next step, I would like to see mandatory filters in online stores, where you could filter out products made in countries that abuse human rights. If you want to buy something on Amazon, that is not coming from China it is extremely time consuming - it should be easy. Finally, products coming from such countries should have a levy, so that the cost of making product in China would be similar as if it was done locally.

If we are going to continue supporting China, all the things that they do, will become appealing to sociopathic politicians here and eventually they'll be copying it.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#44

Post by numpad0 »

varispeed wrote: post #40
jowsie wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We forced the world after 9/11 to block anonymous Internet. You cannot get Internet anywhere without ID. You used to be able to get prepaid SIM cards in most countries till we put pressure on them. In the UK at least a pre paid sim is 99p if you buy it from a shop, you can pay with cash and there's no registration procedure. I doubt we're the only country in the world that works like this.

In countries where registration is required, you can simply ask a homeless person and they'll happily buy a sim for you for a small fee.

And the store staffs won’t be able to activate the SIM if his place of residence and driver’s license or national ID card together can’t be verified at the other end of the FAX machine.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#45

Post by finiteseries »

orf wrote: post #33
1cvmask wrote: post #2

This is a hilarious scaremongering article written for those who are clueless. No surprise as it turns out it is from the comically named neocon outfit Foundation for the Defense of Democracies which is the most bellicose warmongering think tank in DC. They never met a poor third world country that they didn’t want bombed. As for 6G the reason we have no leadership is that Lucent was run into the ground by a mindset…

> We forced the world after 9/11 to block anonymous Internet You didn’t, and it reeks of upmost arrogance to even assume that you could “force” the world to do such a thing.

American exceptionalism all too often seems to cut both ways.

Particularly in the US citizens who have grown up in the aftermath of 9/11 amid their hyper power at the height of its power having a decade long meltdown, I have noticed a near complete lack of perspective regarding the agency of other countries, especially allies.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#46

Post by somedangedname »

dkdk8283 wrote: post #35
api wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP can force Chinese to use this, but why would anyone else use it? I can’t see the USA or EU changing architectures unless our governments mandate it, and I see no moves in that direction. We are barely able to get people to implement IPv6 after 20 years of kicking people in the ass to do it, so it will not happen organically.

Money. Australia is heavily influenced by Chinese policy, look at their stance on privacy / encryption / etc. Eventually this will percolate to the rest of the world. It will take decades but I’m sure it will happen. Younger generations are already pro censorship. Chinas influence is strong enough to cause the AU PM to say stupid things: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170714/10385237789/aussi...

It's a real stretch to claim that the Aus govt's anti-encryption agenda originated in China.

Especially since any penetration of encryption within Australia would likely be turned against foreign agents (including the Chinese).

Also AFAIK we're still stuck in an unequal trade war with the PRC so they're not exactly flavour of the month around here.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#47

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

jowsie wrote: post #12
1cvmask wrote: post #2

This is a hilarious scaremongering article written for those who are clueless. No surprise as it turns out it is from the comically named neocon outfit Foundation for the Defense of Democracies which is the most bellicose warmongering think tank in DC. They never met a poor third world country that they didn’t want bombed. As for 6G the reason we have no leadership is that Lucent was run into the ground by a mindset…

> We forced the world after 9/11 to block anonymous Internet. You cannot get Internet anywhere without ID. You used to be able to get prepaid SIM cards in most countries till we put pressure on them. In the UK at least a pre paid sim is 99p if you buy it from a shop, you can pay with cash and there's no registration procedure. I doubt we're the only country in the world that works like this.

Although his case is somewhat overstated, he isn't wrong about the direction that the US (& it's IC partner countries) are heading.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#48

Post by indymike »

virmundi wrote: post #4

I am some what confused by this being called dystopian. As more and more Westerners call for people being canceled due to a small but vocal minority on Twitter and other platforms, wouldn't this design play right into that? Rather than wasting time defending Twitter, the reasonable social justice warrior would simply petition the sympathetic State functionary to flip the bad-person's Internet connectivity. For exampl…

> We need to use this plan to limit the 1st US amendment, and the equivalent EU laws. Otherwise wrong-think will prevail.

Nothing good happens when government tries to regulate thought. Nothing good comes of the government pointing a gun at citizen's head that can be fired without due process.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#50

Post by Iolaum »

varispeed wrote: post #42

It's becoming clear that their values are completely different from the west. Unfortunately the problem is that consumers here love low prices, but they also love employment rights, social security, free healthcare and other signs of an advanced civilisation - which costs money. The hypocrisy of the society is that they don't care if the product they buy was made in a country that don't respect human rights and was p…

Governments could always impose tariffs to countries that have lower standards on the issues you mentioned and level the planefield.

Unfortunately in practice other considerations get more weight.

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