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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#411

Post by hutzlibu »

ganafagol wrote: post #344
jboy55 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a company that instituted a very similar bonus program, it started just after the time the former COO of Ebay joined ... must have been coincidence. Anyways, we had similar formulas, pretty much the same thing. We were eligible for 6% of our salary but it would be paid out in 4 times a year in 2 different ways. Our bonus was split in two, half would be used for quarterly bonuses, half would be used for ye…

Sounds like lots of time wasted for coming up with such a complicated scheme, communicating it and everybody thinking through how to maximize their own benefit from it. Sounds like the articles point. But on steroids. All it does is keep people from doing actual work and be happy doing so. This is just infighting waiting to happen.

Originally it might boost peoples morale, as they think there is a bonus to be gained. But after people figure it out, there morale drop will probably be a net negative.

It definitely would be a net negative for me, as I would feel screwed.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#412

Post by africanboy »

alisonkisk wrote: post #374
rualca wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feel free to name any category of professional where working over 40 hours a week isn’t quite normal. YMMV but the only time I ever experienced the myth that "working over 40 hours a week is the norm" was when I started working at a US-based company. And the only reason unpaid overtime was the norm was that managers, specially skip-level management, did a piss-poor job establishing sane goals based on realistic tim…

Yes, many places are willing to have lower productivity in exchange for higher quality of life. The US has a different culture and has most economically dominant companies.

I think it's the opposite, productivity is the GDP output over worked hours, in USA they work a lot more than in Europe on average, so their productivity is actually similar, not higher.

More hours = more productivity it's a myth

https://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#413

Post by dudeman13 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #318
ipaddr wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you typed those words into google instead of asking for research you would have found this and millions of other documents. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2015/01/26/wor...

From the academic paper linked to in that news article > the hours at which output is a maximum is at 67 and at 64, respectively. In fact, there are a few cases in which actual observations on hours of work exceed 67 and 64 meaning that, in these instances, average observed hours were at levels where the estimated marginal product of hours is negative! http://ftp.iza.org/dp8129.pdf The Productivity of Working Hours J…

The original claim was about knowledge workers.

In repetitive work of course more time is always gonna be more productive, with diminishing returns. Until the worker/slave mind or body breaks at least.

Mind you, I'm not saying the same doesn't apply for knowledge workers. Just that this specific articles doesn't provide evidence for knowledge workers.

I imagine that there will be more science being done for productivity on knowledge workers once there's some decent way of measuring productivity for knowledge workers.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#414

Post by teachingassist »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #397
adamcharnock wrote: post #57

This reminds me of my first job as a developer, age 21. I haven’t shared it before, so here goes... There was a ‘crunch’ coming up at work (i.e. IMHO, bad planning) and so the boss offered everyone a bonus if they performed well. However, the older employees warned me that the criteria for such bonuses were often ill-defined. I therefore pushed for clear achievable objectives. These pre-agreed objectives were promise…

After you pulling a resignation notice as an argument, an experienced boss would instantly know you would not be an asset he could rely on even mid-term, so his best option from a business perspective would be giving you no bonus at all (or the original one), and immediately starting to look for a replacement (and probably firing you).

This is an employer-employee power relationship. In general the employer has the power, but it cuts both ways, to some extent.

Pulling a resignation notice shows that relationship to have broken down, probably irrevocably, I agree. But, the employer initially broke the relationship, by not keeping their promise regarding the bonus.

The employer (perhaps here the boss's boss) knows they have treated the employee unfairly to an extent that could become legal, which would have an associated cost, and also could impact upon the other employees' motivation (and how employees evaluate the promise of future bonuses).

If the employee is essential and their replacement cost is high, then there's an significant additional cost to firing them fast.

The employer might have to weigh up the costs, and could reason that it's cheaper or otherwise better for the business to pay the bonus.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#415

Post by teachingassist »

atypmorn wrote: post #72

In my last job I worked at a company that paid slightly below the market rate, not including the bonus. At the time I got the job, I didn't realise that I was already being significantly underpaid. I thought it was a bit low but didn't realise the extent of it. So when I got the new job, I was blown over by the huge jump in salary and couldn't be happier. What was better? I was entitled to receive each year up to a 1…

> both the recruiter and my new manager explained to me that I should think of the 10% bonus as a baseline expected part of my salary

If a company does this in Europe [I think generally in the EU], I believe it would then be considered a contractual entitlement and part of your salary - so the company would legally have to pay it anyway.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#416

Post by objclxt »

ipaddr wrote: post #305
barry-cotter wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to name any category of professional where working over 40 hours a week isn’t quite normal. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors. It sure looks like people who work more than 40 hours a week on average do better than those who don’t. This is not a claim about what I wish was true, but about what actually seems to be true. The actual research on this is scarce to the point of non-existence. It may actuall…

Normal for whom? Specialist doctors are not staying late on a Friday or working the weekend. While a walkin clinic doctor might be pushing 60 hours. An average business owner might spend more than 40 hours a week. The most successful business owners hire people to work for them while they enjoy their lives. 8 hours of tired programming gets less done compared to a well rested 3 hour work session.

> Specialist doctors are not staying late on a Friday or working the weekend

This isn’t true. Obstetricians work 24 hour shifts as standard. Babies don’t get born 9-5.

If you come into the ER on a Friday night with severe brain damage you’re seeing the neurologist immediately. If you have a punctured lung you’re not waiting for the pulmonologist to clock in at 9AM.

Nearly all medical specialties work shift patterns or are required to be on call.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#417

Post by voisin »

sjwright wrote: post #52
dilyevsky wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If i recall the same happened when google replaced their holiday gift phone with donation to some charities they picked.

And then the accountants probably tabulated them as corporate donations. So were they gifts from the employee or not?

Bonuses to employees are compensation, so tax deductible to the corporation just like a charitable donation.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#418

Post by Ma8ee »

barry-cotter wrote: post #318
ipaddr wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you typed those words into google instead of asking for research you would have found this and millions of other documents. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2015/01/26/wor...

From the academic paper linked to in that news article > the hours at which output is a maximum is at 67 and at 64, respectively. In fact, there are a few cases in which actual observations on hours of work exceed 67 and 64 meaning that, in these instances, average observed hours were at levels where the estimated marginal product of hours is negative! http://ftp.iza.org/dp8129.pdf The Productivity of Working Hours J…

That study is of manual labour. Why do you think it says anything about knowledge work?

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#420

Post by goatinaboat »

zepto wrote: post #193
donw wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Startup employees going home at 5 and fighting unreasonable schedules? Absolutely. First, overwork doesn't lead to more productivity for knowledge workers. You get to pay that piper one way or another in the end. Second, back in the day, if your company was acquired for multiple billions, you had a pretty good shot at a life-changing infusion of cash. Nowadays, stock options given to employees often end up being wo…

> Nowadays, stock options given to employees often end up being worth nothing, even on a successful exit. This seems unlikely. Exits and IPOs have much greater valuations now than they did ‘back in the day’ so far more early employees end up with a significant infusion of cash.

far more early employees end up with a significant infusion of cash

One word: dilution

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