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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#321

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #237
projectileboy wrote: post #77

The asymmetry between how employees agonize over their behavior towards their employers vs how employers think of their employees never ceases to amaze me. Never forget that your employer will gleefully lay off their most loyal employees if doing so is somehow in alignment with some executive’s comp. I’m not saying you should ever behave unethically, I’m just saying that if you’re on the field, you should be aware of…

> Never forget that your employer will gleefully lay off their most loyal employees if doing so is somehow in alignment with some executive’s comp. I work at a global mega corp run by private equity guy. This is definitely not the way our management works. From my manager up through our BU head, people are valued as a long term investment and are not casually discarded. Yes, if you are not productive, you can be dism…

Sure, but the existence of good management in one company run be a PE guy does not necessitate that this will always happen.

Additionally, management is an incredibly hard job to do well, and most people suck at it, so most management chains do incredibly short-sighted things.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#322

Post by watwut »

lixtra wrote: post #228
DoreenMichele wrote: post #209

I knew a guy who put his two weeks notice in just before the annual Christmas bonus came out. So they stiffed him on the bonus. They ended up paying for that in spades. This was in the planning field and he was moving from a private consulting firm to a government job. Government is where the real power is for this industry. If they were one minute late "Sorry, we are closed/you missed the deadline." If they had any…

> They ended up paying for that in spades. Assuming that guy behaved differently with other companies, shouldn’t we call it corruption? Edit: > This was in the planning field and he was moving from a private consulting firm to a government job . Some downvoters want explain? Seriously HN, you want this kind of government workers? I didn’t assume so. It was an interesting story to share.

It is corruption.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#323

Post by barry-cotter »

ipaddr wrote: post #305
barry-cotter wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to name any category of professional where working over 40 hours a week isn’t quite normal. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors. It sure looks like people who work more than 40 hours a week on average do better than those who don’t. This is not a claim about what I wish was true, but about what actually seems to be true. The actual research on this is scarce to the point of non-existence. It may actuall…

Normal for whom? Specialist doctors are not staying late on a Friday or working the weekend. While a walkin clinic doctor might be pushing 60 hours. An average business owner might spend more than 40 hours a week. The most successful business owners hire people to work for them while they enjoy their lives. 8 hours of tired programming gets less done compared to a well rested 3 hour work session.

As best I can tell the specialty with the lowest annual hours worked is pediatric emergency medicine at around 52 hours a week. Vascular surgery average 66 hours a week. If you want to check my calculations the below paper has annual work hours for different specialties.

Annual Work Hours Across Physician Specialties

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/articl...

Pop article in magazine for physicians

> 2018 Average Physician Hours Worked Per Week Physician Type Average Physician Workweek Age 45 years or less 54.73 hours Age 46 years or more 49.87 hours Male physicians 51.89 hours Female physicians 50.46 hours Practice owners 51.96 hours Employed physicians 53.73 hours Primary care physicians 50.64 hours Physician specialists 51.76 hours

https://www.locumleaders.com/physician-news/the-average-phys...

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#324

Post by Aeolun »

Sebb767 wrote: post #272
LambdaComplex wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even if it can't pay a huge amount for some positions, there's always a lot of recognition that everyone is needed to make it work, and everyone is appreciated I can't pay my rent in recognition or appreciation though.

But using your money to buy happiness after your ten hour work Saturday is not going to be a big success, either. Yes, it does not replace money, but for some people it is worth more to feel happy at work than to receive a bit more money.

Adequate money + fun > Lots of money + miserable

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#325

Post by kbenson »

LambdaComplex wrote: post #199
kbenson wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not staying at a job past 5 unless I have a share of the company. Screw that. Every startup owner thinks they are unique and that’s why 90% of them fail. Not all companies are the same, and not all companies are startups. I'm back working at the same company which was my first job in tech. Not for the second time, not the third either, but the fourth time now. I was first hired there over 22 years ago in tech s…

> even if it can't pay a huge amount for some positions, there's always a lot of recognition that everyone is needed to make it work, and everyone is appreciated I can't pay my rent in recognition or appreciation though.

That's not meant to imply they don't pay well. I included that as a nod to some people I've known in the past that thought they didn't pay well enough, but I also know they've been much more competitive for tech positions the last decade or so (you have to, being SF adjacent). As for tech support (where I think a majority of grumbling traditionally was), I'm not sure what that's like now. It's also a problem of supply and demand though, lots of people are qualified for that.

It doesn't matter how much you like a specific company if they don't have a need for your skills or your skills don't provide enough to live off of. I'm not saying abandon your tech career to work as a janitor at your favorite company, just that there are lots of other choices for someone in tech other than working at a startup. Some pay okay, some pay quite well. Some may not pay well at all. What someone thinks is worth it is obviously up to them and their circumstances.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#326

Post by watwut »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #263
windthrown wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abusing the power of their job to retaliate against specific parties? Yes it sounds like pretty clear-cut corruption.

He may have only been engaging in petty schadenfreude. Given that they stiffed him, they may have been chronically a day late and a dollar short and counting on people to make an exception "just this once" (every single time) because of some sob story or other. Telling them "no" instead of falling for their con job wouldn't be corruption. I'm not condoning corruption. But I do certainly find the story funny.

Being strict and enforcing rules with one company while being tolerant and forgiving with others is how real world corruption often works. And for that matter, how bias in general works. Or nepotism.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#327

Post by ant6n »

taeric wrote: post #26

This is literally a plot point in Christmas Vacation. Is also why I think it is silly for startups to provide too many perks. It sets obvious precedent and will upset more folks when you stop. Find ways to invest in the company so that success is it's own perk. If the company truly has more, work that into raises where you clearly tie the income to the success of the company.

> Is also why I think it is silly for startups to provide too many perks.

Bonuses are a form of variable compensation, not a perk.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#328

Post by chris11 »

gonehome wrote: post #166
jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Yeah, but your example is a little different than the OP's - I think part of this though is that the company is using the 'bonus' effectively as salary but with the idea that they don't have to guarantee its future. The company treats it like salary, the employees treat it like salary, recruiters probably mention it as part of comp like it's salary, etc. Then one day they decide not to do it, of course people are pis…

Yeah, bonuses are nice, but I prefer raises or equity. Bonuses aren't necessary.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#329

Post by faeyanpiraat »

ascorbic wrote: post #283
alienthrowaway wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something buried deeply in our minds that recoils at being treated unfairly. I have a good job, the pay is decent, the work is interesting - but I'm in the process of looking for a different job because I didn't get a promotion. Some junior members on my team did get them though, and it feels unfair (I absolutely have no idea if they don't deserve it, and I like them as team mates). However, I had previously…

There's a famous psychological experiment where people are split into pairs and given a pot of cash to share. One person decides how it should be apportioned, and the other decides whether to accept that share. If they reject it, neither person receives any money. The logical decision is to always accept the money, because a small amount is still better than nothing. However people don't do that. At a certain point,…

Is there a task beforehand where participants could potentially do more/less perceived work than their pairs?

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#330

Post by watwut »

ascorbic wrote: post #283
alienthrowaway wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something buried deeply in our minds that recoils at being treated unfairly. I have a good job, the pay is decent, the work is interesting - but I'm in the process of looking for a different job because I didn't get a promotion. Some junior members on my team did get them though, and it feels unfair (I absolutely have no idea if they don't deserve it, and I like them as team mates). However, I had previously…

There's a famous psychological experiment where people are split into pairs and given a pot of cash to share. One person decides how it should be apportioned, and the other decides whether to accept that share. If they reject it, neither person receives any money. The logical decision is to always accept the money, because a small amount is still better than nothing. However people don't do that. At a certain point,…

On repeated version of game, it pays off to reject unequal deal. So that the other person is incentivized to offer more. So apparently, the desire to punish feeling is optimizing our behavior for repeated game.

Pls, if we are competing in some sense, say socially, then it is better for you to prevent advancement of person you are competing with.

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