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Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

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Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#111

Post by tazjin »

birktj wrote: post #105
tazjin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck. In countries like Germany or Norway there is a culture of hacker organisations sustaining themselves financially via their members. This culture doesn't exist in Sweden, and the spaces and organisations that aren't subsidised by government funds or universities all disappear after a few years. (Source: Lived in all three countries, was active in such organisations in all three countries)

As a Norwegian I would love some pointers to the Norwegian hacker spaces. I am vaguely familiar with some, but it would be nice with some more info.

I'm mostly familiar with the Oslo scene, which has Hackeriet[0] (of which I'm still a member) with more of a CCC-style crowd and Bitraf[1] which has a lot of physical equipment for "makers" and has a much larger space. Hackeriet's IRC channel is also quite nice (though usually in Norwegian and/or svorsk).

There's a few other organisations, notably Teknologihuset[2] which has some communities organising regular events and NUUG[3] which doesn't have a physical space but moves around and is generally a good community to get in contact with.

Note that NUUG have members all throughout Norway, and also an active (Norwegian) IRC channel, which may be a good place to ask about other towns as my knowledge of those is either outdated or non-existing!

Ses på IRC! :)

[0]: https://hackeriet.no [1]: https://bitraf.no/ [2]: https://www.teknologihuset.no/ [3]: https://nuug.no

Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#112

Post by polypodiopsi »

nkmnz wrote: post #88
dathinab wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And pensions, and health insurance, state officials (Beamte) get a (non small part) part of the health insurance payed by the state (at least that was the case in many state official jobs until recently). When you get old and had a not supper high paying job this can easily be as if you had gotten 50%-100% more salery!! At the same time they (state officials) complain they get to little. It's completely stupid. AND a…

To be fair: German employee protection is so strong, it's almost impossible for anyone to get fired from any company bigger than 10 employees for reasons other than committing crimes or felonies, as long as the company cannot prove that they have to let people go due to bad overall business. Even then, as an employer, you cannot simply fire the underachievers, but you have to negotiate with the works council to be ab…

Which is exactly how it should be, no? Or do you favour kickin someone in their 50s out who has worked at the place for the last 20 years and will have a super hard time to find another job no matter how hard they try, so that their only option is being unemployed and to rely on social security?

Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#113

Post by themulticaster »

nkmnz wrote: post #88
dathinab wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And pensions, and health insurance, state officials (Beamte) get a (non small part) part of the health insurance payed by the state (at least that was the case in many state official jobs until recently). When you get old and had a not supper high paying job this can easily be as if you had gotten 50%-100% more salery!! At the same time they (state officials) complain they get to little. It's completely stupid. AND a…

To be fair: German employee protection is so strong, it's almost impossible for anyone to get fired from any company bigger than 10 employees for reasons other than committing crimes or felonies, as long as the company cannot prove that they have to let people go due to bad overall business. Even then, as an employer, you cannot simply fire the underachievers, but you have to negotiate with the works council to be ab…

On the other hand, employers often work around the restrictions on termination by employing people on a fixed-term employment contract ("befristeter Arbeitsvertrag") and then extending the employment period again and again [1]. In many sectors it is pretty much impossible to get an indefinite contract.

[1] Although there is a regular limit of two years, i.e. if you continue working after two years the employment contract will be considered indefinite. (Obligatory IANAL)

Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#114

Post by tetha »

Swizec wrote: post #31
wyck wrote: post #29

There is so much incompetency in governmental IT/software decisions and software it's actually sad. Is it a product of smart people simply not working in this sector or corruption?. It seems from the outside to be filled with imbeciles masquerading as administrators. We need to somehow make the government way more accountable, if only there was an organization that could do that, we could call it the media.

Government IT: pays government salaries Private sector: pays more than lawyers and surgeons even if yiu never graduated college Gee I wonder where smart ambitious people will go

Additionally, well. the BKA, similar to the FBI, looks for security experts. However, since they would be employed by the BKA, they have to go through mandatory physical exams and drug tests. That's just dumb. I'd be able and interested to do that work, but I'm medically unable and not allowed to do that test. So that's that topic done. Can't do security due to asthma.

Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#115

Post by ben0x539 »

Tistron wrote: post #84
lampe3 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm part of the CCC in Hamburg We will move to stockholm and I'm thinking of creating one :)

Check out https://www.blivande.com/ Burners, artists and (I think) hackers doing stuff together in Stockholm. (I'm not in sthlm but part of the Scandinavian burning scene)

What does burner mean here?

Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#116

Post by themulticaster »

g_p wrote: post #89
foepys wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirdly enough, the Bundesamt für Sicherheit in der Informationstechnik (BSI), Germany's cyber security authority, is actually very good and has very competent security experts. I bet the officials never consulted them about Luca.

I've seen authorities like this "not consulted" deliberately, on the basis that there's a more expedient need for the product, than for the product to be secure. If the experience of the procuring department is that "BSI finds everything is insecure", then you procure without letting BSI know or have a say in it, and then you look good for getting the procurement completed. Getting cross-department cooperation on any…

> If the experience of the procuring department is that "BSI finds everything is insecure", then you procure without letting BSI know or have a say in it, and then you look good for getting the procurement completed.

Sounds plausible. Especially looking at years of (German) data protection officials recommending against using Windows 10/Office 365 in government agencies, followed by officials explaining that only Microsoft's products are able to fulfill their "extremely complicated requirements".

I'm not entirely convinced that only Windows 10 has the necessary features for registering a vehicle title...

Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#117

Post by crazygringo »

andrew_v4 wrote: post #35
wyck wrote: post #29

There is so much incompetency in governmental IT/software decisions and software it's actually sad. Is it a product of smart people simply not working in this sector or corruption?. It seems from the outside to be filled with imbeciles masquerading as administrators. We need to somehow make the government way more accountable, if only there was an organization that could do that, we could call it the media.

It's actually "accountability" that's a big part of the problem. Government procurement is so focused on the appearance of fairness and money saving that all other goals, like actually getting something that works, take a back seat. You end up with over-specified requirements that remove the possibility of innovative or creative solutions. Providers are treated like a commodity, where it is assumed that all will do t…

This is exactly it.

And to be clear, there's a good reason for it: it's to prevent corruption.

If things aren't overspecified and providers aren't treated like a commodity, then it's incredibly hard to prove that a government official actually awarded a contract in a fair process, rather than just sending it over to their best friend's business.

Unfortunately, nobody's really come up with any reliable process for having the flexibility to get good products for good value, while reliably preventing corruption. And when there aren't these ironclad protections against corruption, experience shows it turns endemic, so much money flows through the government.

It's a seriously tough problem.

The reason it doesn't exist in the private sector is that the chain of accountability from managers to CEO to board seats is actually quite strong, and shareholders are incredibly motivated to extract profits. The accountability to voters in a democracy, on the otherhand, is far, far, far weaker -- as voters vote primarily along party lines or on only the absolute biggest hot-button issues.

Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#118

Post by wildmanx »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #10

The Luca app really is a complete train wreck. And what's worse is that the federal governments don't even have any direct control over the app itself, they just bought access to the contact tracing data for 12 months from the company operating the app. Meanwhile the company controls the app and all connected user accounts and can repurpose it in whichever way they see fit (and they already announced they have plans…

> I wasn't a big fan of the Covid tracing app in the beginning

Let this be a lesson. If you get something good and still keep complaining and complaining, then what you get in the end is something bad.

Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#119

Post by ValentineC »

birktj wrote: post #105
tazjin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck. In countries like Germany or Norway there is a culture of hacker organisations sustaining themselves financially via their members. This culture doesn't exist in Sweden, and the spaces and organisations that aren't subsidised by government funds or universities all disappear after a few years. (Source: Lived in all three countries, was active in such organisations in all three countries)

As a Norwegian I would love some pointers to the Norwegian hacker spaces. I am vaguely familiar with some, but it would be nice with some more info.

Have you tried the Hackerspaces wiki? https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Norway

Re: Luca App: CCC calls for a moratorium

#120

Post by ValentineC »

teddyh wrote: post #82
zibzab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, there are tons of hackerspaces in Sweden. Its just that they are either tied to universities, startup clusters or for kids. I guess you were simply not in contact with the right people.

> Its just that they are either tied to universities, startup clusters or for kids. …or lacking members. He wrote, glancing around the empty room

Because of COVID?
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