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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#761

Post by void_mint »

jonstewart wrote: post #203
_6pvr wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not challenging you on whether or not you're smart. I'm commenting on the fact that you're unable to find employment, which means either you're carrying yourself incorrectly or you're unable to perform the tasks required of an entry-level applicant. You're bringing up this resume, these achievements, which can verify that you're intelligent and capable of critical thinking, so the greatest culprit would be that y…

One of the hardest lessons for young people early in their careers is to stop beginning sentences with “I am going to...” or “I am doing...” and instead start off with a [truthful!] “I did...” With an abusive childhood, homeschooling, no college, OP has a long road to travel. That all needs to be addressed, and finding a supportive environment will make that much easier. A career is based on achievement, however, beg…

> One of the hardest lessons for young people early in their careers is to stop beginning sentences with “I am going to...” or “I am doing...” and instead start off with a [truthful!] “I did...”

It's tough all around I think. It seems like OP might've observed signaling in the past that suggested that "appearing to be a good candidate" and "being a good candidate" are identical, and in actuality are usually not. It's tough because of nepotism, sometimes appearing to be a good candidate is good enough, but for most people you actually have to be at least close to as good a candidate as you appear to be. Meaning, if you include that you went to X university, you actually have to have worked through a substantial amount of that university's curriculum. Same with any internship/program/whatever - there's almost no value in having just been invited to attend.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#762

Post by void_mint »

user5994461 wrote: post #347
_6pvr wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not challenging you on whether or not you're smart. I'm commenting on the fact that you're unable to find employment, which means either you're carrying yourself incorrectly or you're unable to perform the tasks required of an entry-level applicant. You're bringing up this resume, these achievements, which can verify that you're intelligent and capable of critical thinking, so the greatest culprit would be that y…

>>> which means either you're carrying yourself incorrectly or you're unable to perform the tasks required of an entry-level applicant. That's reading too far IMO. I see no mention of a degree at a reputable college. I see experience in support/QA, that has no relevance to the work of a developer (and it didn't go well apparently). I don't expect that sort of profile to be invited to job interviews. The job market is…

Sorry, I should've rephrased to say "you're being assessed as carrying yourself incorrectly or being unable to perform..."

Meaning, if they're making it to an interview, they might be failing at a personality/conversational portion, and if they're not, it's probably because their resume/achievements do not get them to the next interview phase.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#763

Post by javajosh »

aetherspawn wrote: post #229
rsweeney21 wrote: post #84

I'm a software engineer that runs a technical recruiting company. I worked at Microsoft and Netflix for a decade. Email me at robert at facet dot net. I will interview you and tell you why you're not getting hired.

If I ever met you, I'd buy you a coffee. You jumped straight in to help the OP without offering any kind of upfront diagnosis based on the very little information available. The traits are patience and humility. They're valuable and not often found.

I agree that the GP's offer is admirable and far better than mere feedback. But this doesn't obviate the value of honest, constructive feedback. His concern is explicitly about the impression he makes on others, therefore our impressions are valid to share with him.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#764

Post by x0x0 »

aeoleonn wrote: post #439
x0x0 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, to be direct -- you appear to have little to no programming skill. You've never worked as a dev before, except perhaps at IBM, from which you transitioned to QA? You have no college degree in programming. And you're applying to the top echelon of software companies, that have the ability to have a shot at almost any candidate they want. You need to be a fulltime dev somewhere, and without a degree (let alone fr…

This person is correct in that: You MUST show your programming skills. How? * Github. I spent 4 months programming a project in NodeJS, ReactJS, Postgres, (+ html/css of course) on Linux. I posted the code on Github for the world to see. Within 2 weeks I was hired to my first 100% programming job: $80k, on 1099 contract. Two months later, I was hired on salary at $105k by a different company. Once I had those on my r…

This is certainly a possible route. To be honest, I'm not sure the poster has the ability to carry through a four month self-directed project like that; a bootcamp and/or working as a junior engineer provides far more structure and direction.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#765

Post by bigbillheck »

BeetleB wrote: post #249
seiferteric wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing is you may think you contribute a lot, but if you put in your 2 weeks and your boss does not try to keep you (counter offer or whatever) then they obviously don't think the same thing about you...

If you spend less than 2 months on the job before you put in your 2 weeks, no boss will try to keep you.

I once gave notice before the 2 month mark because I had a major life event change, boss was flexible and talked me out of it and I stayed there for several more years.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#766

Post by thesuitonym »

ehnto wrote: post #522
jart wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good comment with the right instinct but for the wrong reasons. The biggest red flag is struggling with personal finance. You can't get jobs like the ones he wants if you live beyond your means and constantly land in hot water with money because people who are like that are at risk of turning to evil to make ends meet.

What jobs inquire about your financial history? That seems a little dystopian. Can't get a handle on your finances because you don't have a steady job, better not give them a steady job!

Even if an interviewer doesn't ask about your finances, it can be pretty clear if you're on the very low end. A person living hand-to-mouth may not be able to afford nice clothes (I remember a time when those $99 suit deals were something I had to plan ahead for!), and what nice clothes they have may be worn out. In most of the US, you'll be showing up to your interview in a car because there's no public transit. Is that car an old beater? That says something.

But mostly it's clothes. If you're having a hard time financially, the interview clothes you have (if any) will likely fit poorly, be worn out, poorly constructed, or all three.

By the way: For anyone who finds themselves in this situation, check out local food banks, churches, and your local DoL office. These groups will typically either have an interview clothing program, or will know of one. Nearly every city in the US--even the small ones--will have some kind of charity like this. If you're having trouble dressing or getting rides for interviews, reach out. It never hurts to ask.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#767

Post by aga_ml »

Maybe I'm a bit late to the party here, but I do career coaching and I'd be happy to schedule a free 30 min chat / do a practice interview. [Email in profile]

Regarding my experience, I have passed SWE interviews at google (interned at oculus/facebook) / regularly conduct such interviews at my company. On a bit more personal note, I definitely had a phase in my life where social interactions didn't come naturally. I needed to break down social interactions and create rules to better navigate them.

Regarding baseline feedback, there is already a lot here, I'd just say that your number one focus should be to get a job and focus on keeping that job for a year or two. People will only trust you with more senior roles if you can demonstrate a track record of commitment. Of course, it may be the case that all of your previous jobs were bad situations to begin with, but people who are looking to hire you now don't know what happened and will see leaving many jobs as a red/yellow flag.

I imagine that it will take effort, but is totally within your capabilities, to work on staying committed to a job for 1-2 years even it if feels below you, etc. It may take some changes in perspective, but it is definitely possible to get help with navigating the mental hurdles that come with staying at a job even if it isn't the most exciting thing in the world.

I'd also take a lot of the armchair diagnosing with a grain of salt. Its normal for people to struggle with various types of social interactions. If getting diagnosed were important to you, you could definitely see a licensed psychologist (not me).

All that being said, let me know if I can help!

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#768

Post by rualca »

speeder wrote: post #725
ma2rten wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily agree regarding FAANG. Once someone gets an interview it doesn't matter much what their previous work experience is.

I interviewed at Amazon. Aced all questions, except the one that ALL of their inverviewers asked, that was how I had shown leadership solving a problem in a team situation in my past jobs. See, in all my past jobs, I never been in a large team. Didn't pass the interview, they have a policy to not tell you why but I can guess why...

> I interviewed at Amazon. Aced all questions, (...)

To me that raises a flag on how you may not have a good grasp on what really happened in your interview. You don't ace questions in the onsite interview at Amazon. You are there to provide data for the interviewers to decide if you're a valid candidate. If you were rejected then the data your interviewers collected on you led them to that decision.

Source: I know a few people who went as far as onsite interviews at Amazon. Some got in, others didn't. None of the guys who were left out were cut because of their hard skills.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#769

Post by aledalgrande »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #511
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #211

As a hiring manager, the things that stand out to me in your post: - You said you quit a job at EA, quit a job at IBM, dropped out of college your freshman year. You may have valid reasons for leaving each of these, but you have to see this from the manager's perspective: You had 3 different great opportunities that all came to a dead end at the beginning of your career. You need an alternate narrative. - You talk ab…

> yet the only real job experience you list in your post is low level customer support Devs are in the lucky position that you can obtain some aspects of 'real job experience' outside of a job. Create a project, or contribute to open source project in an area that interests you - it will hone your skills and give something concrete on your resume. [edit] And make the projects very directed to the jobs you want to get…

This. You wouldn't believe how much visibility contributing to known open source projects gives you. And you train your communication and collaboration skills (PRs/reviews) in addition to the usual developer chops. Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#770

Post by BeetleB »

bigbillheck wrote: post #765
BeetleB wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you spend less than 2 months on the job before you put in your 2 weeks, no boss will try to keep you.

I once gave notice before the 2 month mark because I had a major life event change, boss was flexible and talked me out of it and I stayed there for several more years.

Sure, but you had a good justification.
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