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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#221

Post by serverholic »

xpe wrote: post #182
hinkley wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you call him a creep, I would call him a go getter. I've not had terribly good luck with people who use the term 'go getter.' Quite a few of them have been creeps. Smooth and slick, definitely, but at the end of the day, manipulative people who I avoid making eye contact with at public events, hoping that they don't remember me. Creeps.

I get the impression it is common for technically oriented people to think of salespeople, marketers, and recruiters as manipulative. In your view, what are some ways you think about the difference between persuasion and manipulation? I've been reading about this very topic in the context of media persuasion.

In this context, manipulation comes from a place of dishonest enthusiasm.

Salespeople, marketers, and recruiters generally don't give two shits about the product they're selling.

So yes it's manipulative because they're displaying fake enthusiasm and trying to trick you into thinking it's genuine.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#222

Post by brundolf »

Covzire wrote: post #112
ritchiea wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great advice. I would add: don't wait for them to coach you, tell them what your strengths are and how you've had trouble finding a job at big tech companies. Let them know you're open to smaller and lesser known tech companies and that you want to be coached to help you with the interviews. Because you're striking out at the interview stage and you know you can perform better. EDIT: based on the first reply…

Personally I wouldn't volunteer to tell them which or how many big tech companies rejected my resume. I'm afraid that nine times out of ten it would create undue prejudice in the interviewer/recruiter.

Important to note that interviewer and recruiter are two different parties. The interviewer's job is to be skeptical of you; the recruiter's job is to polish you up and sell you to the interviewer. The recruiter is on your side, so it makes sense to be open with them.

(Note that this only applies to recruiting agencies. A "recruiter" at the company you're interviewing for is the exact opposite story.)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#223

Post by SkyMarshal »

aphextron wrote: post #64
BeetleB wrote: post #54

So far none of the replies has mentioned this, and it may be unpopular in HN, but: Seriously consider going back to school and finishing a degree. Although it's "known" that you don't really need a degree for a SW role, there are plenty of well established old school companies that will not consider you at all unless you have a degree. On the flip side, you'll get jobs more easily. A lot of interviewers who choose to…

I would second this, and also say get any degree. A real accredited CS BS degree is incredibly difficult and time consuming. But a BA can be knocked out in 2 years and makes you infinitely more employable on paper than just a high school graduate for any position.

I'm not sure any random BA can help these days. Anecdotally at least, one of the recurring news stories about Millenials is about how so many can't get jobs with their BA degrees. OP is probably better off going to Lambda School or a similar technical boot camp.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#224

Post by rsweeney21 »

kyawzazaw wrote: post #196
rsweeney21 wrote: post #84

I'm a software engineer that runs a technical recruiting company. I worked at Microsoft and Netflix for a decade. Email me at robert at facet dot net. I will interview you and tell you why you're not getting hired.

Do you do internationally and/or trading firms?

We're only operating in the US right now. I'm not sure what a trading firm is...

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#225

Post by kroltan »

xpe wrote: post #182
hinkley wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you call him a creep, I would call him a go getter. I've not had terribly good luck with people who use the term 'go getter.' Quite a few of them have been creeps. Smooth and slick, definitely, but at the end of the day, manipulative people who I avoid making eye contact with at public events, hoping that they don't remember me. Creeps.

I get the impression it is common for technically oriented people to think of salespeople, marketers, and recruiters as manipulative. In your view, what are some ways you think about the difference between persuasion and manipulation? I've been reading about this very topic in the context of media persuasion.

Not who you asked, but for me persuasion is a manner of manipulation, trying to convince anyone of anything using anything but raw and complete information is manipulation.

Of course under that assumption, basically every human communication is manipulative, but that doesn't mean it is intrinsically "evil". It's all rather subjective I guess.

"Evil", or maybe to be a bit more specific, "sleazy", would be to use such manipulation with the intent of personal or tribal benefit, which is what fits the people groups you mentioned above.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#226

Post by serverholic »

nl wrote: post #183
snakedoctor wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried out meetup.com and went to one meetup. It was ok. I felt a little uncomfortable though. They solicited for my name, and email to be added to the Slack. There was a lot of recreational clubs etc at my college. I tried rock climbing, and liked it. There wasn't a lot of social interaction with rock climbing though. I went to a party in Austin. Chatted with strangers etc. Wasn't really sure what else to talk a…

> They solicited for my name, and email to be added to the Slack. Your terminology here says a lot, right? If you are going to a meetup to meet people, then the whole point is to get to know people. And yes, that will involve them knowing your name, and communicating with you. To open up your job prospects: realize this is normal and desirable.

[flagged]

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#227

Post by alfl »

With compassion: you seem paranoid. Lots of talk about security and hackers and spies. Your submission history is telling. Have you thought about getting therapy?

I get the feeling from your writing that you are conflating social signalling and personal economic outcomes. You seem to want people to think you are smart more than you want to succeed? Or at least those ideas seem in conflict.

Do you want a job at a Big Name or do you want money?

Have you thought of starting a business? That way you don't need permission from other (besides customers) to succeed.

Probably better is, as many others have suggested, to get a job a smaller company that will have you. Then build something on the side.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#228

Post by bawolff »

chillfox wrote: post #144
snakedoctor wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing a therapist. I had an abusive childhood. Not that it justifies anything. I was also homeschooled since the 6th grade, so I didn't really have any IRL friends etc. I hope that I'm not a sociopath... I might be on the high functioning autisim scale. I've never been tested so I don't know.

As someone who was also home schooled and had problems with social interactions in my early twenties the best advice I can give is join several clubs that does things in person. You MUST learn how to make friends, how to not upset people, how to be comfortable in social situations and empathy. To do this I would recommend that you force yourself into social situations regularly. Afterwards spend some time thinking ab…

As someone who sometimes struggles with social stuff, join a club has never been useful advice for me. Its never worked out well, i'm not sure where y'all live where there are actually interesting clubs, and they're pretty awkward environments generally imo.

I've had better luck with do something with a more structured environment. E.g. take an in person class (something not work related. Learn sign language or something) but that takes $$$ and ymmv.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#229

Post by aetherspawn »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #84

I'm a software engineer that runs a technical recruiting company. I worked at Microsoft and Netflix for a decade. Email me at robert at facet dot net. I will interview you and tell you why you're not getting hired.

If I ever met you, I'd buy you a coffee. You jumped straight in to help the OP without offering any kind of upfront diagnosis based on the very little information available. The traits are patience and humility. They're valuable and not often found.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#230

Post by xupybd »

xpe wrote: post #182
hinkley wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you call him a creep, I would call him a go getter. I've not had terribly good luck with people who use the term 'go getter.' Quite a few of them have been creeps. Smooth and slick, definitely, but at the end of the day, manipulative people who I avoid making eye contact with at public events, hoping that they don't remember me. Creeps.

I get the impression it is common for technically oriented people to think of salespeople, marketers, and recruiters as manipulative. In your view, what are some ways you think about the difference between persuasion and manipulation? I've been reading about this very topic in the context of media persuasion.

Manipulation is when you lie to me. Persuasion is when you believe what you're telling me.
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