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Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

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Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#111

Post by wayneftw »

evilduck wrote: post #105
wayneftw wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are macs still shipping with severely outdated CLI tools? 10 years ago, Mac users just got the ability to resize a window by any edge or corner... How's that really good window management system working out for ya? It's shocking that the Mac UX is so good that 75% of the developers out there would rather not use one... Meanwhile developers are the group that uses them more than the general population so both groups o…

Windows is still shipping without CLI tools and Linux distros also mostly don't ship with build-essential or headers, -dev packages or every language toolchain. Every system requires setup and MacOS shipping with older GPL2 packages puts it squarely between the two alternatives in terms of setup and configuration cost. As for the WM differences, its just a different way of thinking about it, or a preference. None of…

Every system requires setup, but only Linux systems will remain exactly as you have set them up year after year, if you wish. During the last 2 years, out of all the Linux, Mac and Windows systems in my house - the Macs have been the only systems broken in some major way by an OS update.

Having to remove some dangerously old GNU utils and constantly having to contend with Apple over your rights puts macOS squarely behind Linux and only just ahead of Windows (for work) in my book. If you haven't used Linux in years, try a rolling Arch based distro like Manjaro and you'll experience how little setup you actually need to get your job done. Heck, you don't even have to use the CLI to install every single piece of software you'll ever need. It literally takes minutes to setup. Windows and Mac simply can't compete in this area.

WM differences don't necessarily annoy me, but I don't tolerate people saying shit like "Mac UX is better than anything, period" because that is demonstrably not true for many, many, many values of "better". I have all three at home and at work and I use each one for what it's best at. Windows for gaming and entertainment. Linux for any sort of development. Macs for Apple/Mac/iOS stuff. They each have some obvious strengths, but anyone arguing that Macs are uniformly better for developers are clearly inexperienced IMO.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#112

Post by floatingatoll »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #40
thethimble wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t necessarily need a majority to influence the population. Nassim Taleb has described several examples of “intolerant minorities” that influence the behavior of the whole. I wouldn’t be surprised if a similar thing happens with ARM. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

The reasonable person adapts to the world around them. The unreasonable person makes the world adapt to them. Therefore all change is dependent upon the unreasonable person. The world does not change for reasonable people.

False. It is not always reasonable to adapt; for example, when the adapting to the world would worsen the world. Changing "reasonable" to "passive" and "unreasonable" to "active" resolves the inaccuracy in your statement, and more correctly names the risk inherent in passively adapting.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#113

Post by strunz »

DougBTX wrote: post #102
mojo982 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they? Having a stable starting point for the “machine” you’re building on contributes to having reproducible builds does it not?

Maybe kinda, but really you'd want reproducible cross-compilation too, so a reproducible build should produce the same binary regardless of which machine it is run on.

"Identical binaries" is not the same thing as "reproducible builds". It's maybe one aspect of one type of CI/CD, but I would say not even the majority.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#114

Post by m463 »

pjmlp wrote: post #27
me551ah wrote: post #9

The whole point of docker was to have reproducible builds. What runs on the dev machine also runs on the server. But M1 macs change that in a major way. There might be bugs or available features in ARM versions of popular software, so what works on a dev machine might not work on the server and vice-versa.

Containers don't have anything to do with reproducible builds, docker advocates just happened to misuse it for that purpose.

well, docker containers have an md5 sum. I think that's pretty reproducible.

(although yes, the base filesystem might be different)

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#115

Post by m463 »

octos4murai wrote: post #31
biztos wrote: post #22

Doesn’t this imply that we could have Docker for iOS? I don’t think Apple would allow it, but it seems like an interesting antitrust wedge if they blocked it.

I’m just dreaming out loud here but I would love for the iPad to allow for a developer workflow similar to Fedora Silverblue. Perhaps not the layered OS images but the containerized sandboxes (toolbox) and the App Store instead of Flathub.

I always thought it would be cool to have a native apple docker.

By native I mean:

  FROM macos:10.13.2
  RUN xcode-build
but apple doesn't really understand containers.

(I mean the "you're not the target market" understand)

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#116

Post by aidos »

1_player wrote: post #107
appletrotter wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of tech stacks aren’t going to require cross compiling though

To be honest I think the desktop question is misleading. x86 to most is a known quantity, there is very few specific reasons to choose ARM instead of x86. But if desktop ARM becomes commonplace, it's a good indicator that ARM is finally competitive for "serious" workloads, and people might invest in it more. As thing stands right now and IMO, it's getting there but Apple having M1 is not enough for me, as CTO, to loo…

Depends what your developers are running internally. If they’re already on macs, some will be on M1s soon, and then you’ll have little choice.

I’d wager that right now the M1s are about the most bang for buck you can get on desktop machines.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#117

Post by samkim »

aidos wrote: post #81
lostlogin wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did you switch from and how have you found it?

Not the OP but I've been on an M1 Air for a couple of weeks. It's startlingly good. It's been a lot of work to recompile our various dependencies for am ARM64 VM but overall the machine is hands down the best I've ever used.

Went through the same process except with an M1 Macbook Pro. My coworkers volunteered me to see if we could get our dev stack building and running on ARM with hopes they could eventually dump their older x86 Macbook Pros, which run loud and hot.

It was a bit of a process but once we got it working, developing on the M1 has been great. Captured notes on the process here in case it's helpful for anyone later: https://authzed.com/blog/onboarding-with-an-m1/

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#118

Post by doctor_eval »

rogerbinns wrote: post #109
doctor_eval wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you work on 88K with DG/UX? I loved that OS. All my 88K work was done on a dumb Wyse 60 terminal logged into one, and I’d busily UUCP my files between the various machines depending on which ones I was working on. But things are a bit different now, it’s much more convenient to work on a laptop, so most people do that. Maybe the pendulum will swing the other way and we’ll start timesharing again, with laptops as…

I worked with 88K DG/UX. Back in those times our company did a desktop environment for UNIX workstations (X Windows didn't come with one as standard). We had over 20 different versions of UNIX systems, including a Sony workstation. 88K DG/UX didn't last very long before they switched to x86, which we also had. Under my desk I had Motorola's 88110 system (a stackable with a SCSI floppy disk!) The thing that stood out…

Yeah I worked on Aviions and Clarriions in healthcare, I think we had the first DG RAID 5 array delivered in Western Australia, there’s a photo of me and my boss standing proudly on either side of it as it came off the back of the truck. All 2.5 GB of it!

The DG gear was awesome, the OS was great and even the support was terrific. Such a shame they died.

I never considered the rise of Windows as a development platform as being the driver for that failure but it makes sense. I used to work on X terminals and then Linux workstations, and with DG being strongly into GNU tools I didn’t see the Windows side of things at all until much later in my career.

But this really supports up the idea that if devs move to ARM, so will the cloud.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#119

Post by n42 »

drcongo wrote: post #67
stefandesu wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean simply having Rosetta installed on your machine noticeably slows down everything else, even if you're not using an app under Rosetta? This sounds like a bug.

Or confirmation bias.

probably. but the difference in performance for IntelliJ was night and day, and given the inability to uninstall rosetta and AB test I don’t really want to play with it again.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#120

Post by aidos »

samkim wrote: post #117
aidos wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP but I've been on an M1 Air for a couple of weeks. It's startlingly good. It's been a lot of work to recompile our various dependencies for am ARM64 VM but overall the machine is hands down the best I've ever used.

Went through the same process except with an M1 Macbook Pro. My coworkers volunteered me to see if we could get our dev stack building and running on ARM with hopes they could eventually dump their older x86 Macbook Pros, which run loud and hot. It was a bit of a process but once we got it working, developing on the M1 has been great. Captured notes on the process here in case it's helpful for anyone later: https://a…

Excellent work.

More than anything; starting on a new team, sorting out the provisioning process, meaningfully contributing to the team and doing a write up for their blog. I’d wager whoever hired you is very pleased.

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